Higher used Mach-E prices are the "New Normal"

[RickMachE]

I don't debate the merits of government on a car forum. No place here.

Irrelevant whether someone thinks that car markups are price gouging or not. That is their opinion. They can contact their state and find out if it is or not.

However, you made a false statement. Price gouging is a fact, it exists, which is why laws were created to deal with it. To say it doesn't exist, in your opinion, is nice, but it does exist. I suppose you also don't think speeding exists, but there are laws against it. Also laws against robbery, murder, etc. All exist.

Laws exist to prevent anarchy.

Your opinion is noted, disagreed with, and irrelevant to the thread topic.

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[mkhuffman]

Your opinion is noted, disagreed with, and irrelevant to the thread topic.

As is yours.

 

[DennisD]

Price gouging is an opinion, not a fact. In my opinion, there is no such thing as price gouging. It is a made up term for people who don't like the market price of something.

If you don't like the market price, don't buy it. Pretty simple. Then you are not gouged. ?

Pretty funny how people think they are somehow wronged when they voluntarily pay for something they want. Maybe taking personal responsibility for our own decisions isn't something some people want to do. They would rather blame others.

Price Gouging is an opinion and not a fact?

I take it that you were totally okay when Toilet Paper was hoarded and then sold on the Black Market for sometimes hundreds over the original price. No price gouging there.............?

In your little world, if you don't want to pay 2k for a roll of Toilet Paper that is your choice. At that point and time, the "market" is dictating the price. Also, using your argument the Toilet Paper would have been more scarce if that black market scheme would not have existed.

You see how your logic dissolves similar to the toilet paper hitting the water in the bowl. ?

This is such a silly debate. When it comes down to it, you really believe that there should be no regulations or controls to curb abuse and I think there should be when society loses out to the few with so much greed they are willing to step on the throat of the "regular" guy.

I agree that this new high price is the normal but I don't agree with a few dealerships price gouging. Yes, it does exist.

 

[mkhuffman]

Price Gouging is an opinion and not a fact?

I take it that you were totally okay when Toilet Paper was hoarded and then sold on the Black Market for sometimes hundreds over the original price. No price gouging there.............?

In your little world, if you don't want to pay 2k for a roll of Toilet Paper that is your choice. At that point and time, the "market" is dictating the price. Also, using your argument the Toilet Paper would have been more scarce if that black market scheme would not have existed.

You see how your logic dissolves similar to the toilet paper hitting the water in the bowl. ?

This is such a silly debate. When it comes down to it, you really believe that there should be no regulations or controls to curb abuse and I think there should be when society loses out to the few with so much greed they are willing to step on the throat of the "regular" guy.

I agree that this new high price is the normal but I don't agree with a few dealerships price gouging. Yes, it does exist.

As our friendly Rick pointed out, this thread has really strayed beyond the topics covered by a car forum. However, I have a hard time resisting and not responding to your posts.

Yes, I am OK with all of that. And I know that puts my opinion in the minority. Even my wife disagrees with me (imagine that). But it is still my opinion that a free market is better than a government regulated market. Notice I said "government regulated" because in reality there are lots of "regulations" imposed by free people in a free market, but that is even further off the topic.

You might be able to convince me if we were discussing water, but you are never going to convince me that it is possible to price gouge a $60,000 car. Nobody needs a $60,000 car.

But I have a hard time even with water because it is better to have expensive water than no water. Maybe we can move the water price gouging debate to the water forum.

 

[DennisD]

As our friendly Rick pointed out, this thread has really strayed beyond the topics covered by a car forum. However, I have a hard time resisting and not responding to your posts.

Yes, I am OK with all of that. And I know that puts my opinion in the minority. Even my wife disagrees with me (imagine that). But it is still my opinion that a free market is better than a government regulated market. Notice I said "government regulated" because in reality there are lots of "regulations" imposed by free people in a free market, but that is even further off the topic.

You might be able to convince me if we were discussing water, but you are never going to convince me that it is possible to price gouge a $60,000 car. Nobody needs a $60,000 car.

But I have a hard time even with water because it is better to have expensive water than no water. Maybe we can move the water price gouging debate to the water forum.

The only thing you convinced me on is that it sounds like you married up. ?

Other than that, I will leave it as a friendly disagreement.

Have a good day.?

 

[mkhuffman]

The only thing you convinced me on is that it sounds like you married up. ?

Other than that, I will leave it as a friendly disagreement.

Have a good day.?

You too! Take your MME out for a very fast drive! Just don't break any of those government mandated speed limits. ?

 

[Pibbman]

adjusted “msrp”… right…

 

[Triggerhappy007]

adjusted “msrp”… right…

You're quoting the wrong word, it's "adjusted" MSRP.

 

[rapidredmustang]

Coming back to the premise of buying ten Mach-E's, taking the tax credit, and paying for a $75K MSRP Mach-E... Even though it was likely in jest, sometimes people do this very thing (entering sweepstakes to win the prize, for example, or gaming the lottery), so here are a few things to keep in mind.

First, many states have a rebuttable presumption that if you sell more than 2-6 cars (depending on state) you're a dealership. So there's an upper limit there, unless you want to go to court to rebut your presumed-dealership status.

Second, since it's a tax credit, you have to have that amount of tax liability to get any back. You'd have to make more than $170K to need 5 cars to get enough credits to wipe out your tax liability (using this approach alone). And people who make that amount are likely getting credits elsewhere (retirement investment, HSAs, college funds, etc. etc.).

Third, the IRS requires "you put into service" the vehicle you are claiming and it is "not for resale". While these requirements are vague and unclear if or how they would be evaluated and enforced, it would be prudent to think of how you will explain to the IRS how you "put into service" a vehicle you never practically drove (or work that into your strategy, to use it to commute to work for example and put some miles on the car each year).

I know these details because I (will have) bought 3 EVs over the course of 2 tax years, and I wanted clarity with my accountant to ensure I could claim the credit. In my household, there are two drivers, and at no time did I ever own more than two EVs, nor did I buy one with the express intent to resell it. I (will have) traded in a personal vehicle for two of them, and I drove each one for personal use, so it's easy to support the claim of "in service".

Arguably, a dual driver household, if you could buy 2 cars every 3 months for a year, ensuring you never had more cars than drivers (that is a low bar, some people, collectors, for example, have several cars per driver in the household), you could buy 8 vehicles, and earn $60,000 in credits over the course of a year and you'd probably have a defensible position if you were audited by the IRS.

But it also means you had to spend approx. $320K on entry-level Mach-Es or equivalent vehicles to earn that much credit, and there's lots of additional overhead and hassle with titling, licensing, insurance you have to manage as well. True, some of that would be rotating throughout the year, so you might not have more than ~$85k in float, but it's still a chunk of change just to try to get the car for "free".

Bottom line is, while there are people who will game the system, the practical situation of the chip/supply chain shortages makes it infeasible to order 8 cars and have them delivered like clockwork that puts an upper practical bound of how many cars you can do this with likely right about where your state requires you to file as a dealership anyway (and in my view, you run the greatest legal risk-- state rules-- rather than IRS enforcement).

In my state that limit is 5, and over the course of 2 years, I'm going to be able to claim 3 vehicles' worth of credit. Given my other credits, it's enough to wipe out a significant amount of my tax liability, your mileage (so to speak) will likely vary.

 

[Mandretti]

I’m interested in why you think the Recurrent study on winter range is nonsense?

 

[mkhuffman]

I’m interested in why you think the Recurrent study on winter range is nonsense?

He answered that question with a previous post: they are not actually measuring range. They use the GOM instead. That is a pretty unreliable way to do a test and basically makes it useless.

 

[PCS2021]

Those Ford dealers need to have their names plastered all over the Mach E Blog

 

[MachEMomE]

I wonder if I buy a car for $50k and then sell it for $50k, then do I owe tax for this profit of $7500 coming from the federal credit?

I would say no, because it is not classified as income, it is a credit against taxes you have already paid.

 

[kennethjk]

I would say no, because it is not classified as income, it is a credit against taxes you have already paid.

I believe that it would be taxable. Code section 30d deals with that but have not read it lately

 

[MachEMomE]

Correct, and I have to believe that claiming 10 EV credits would trigger some IRS flags.

I took the comment to be a joke though. ?

Why would intent matter? Isn't it a matter of numbers?

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