Home Charging - ChargePoint (6-50 vs 14-50) or the JuiceBox ( 40 vs 48 and plug in vs. Hardwire) ?

noname

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In my case, I decided to just install the NEMA plug and hire electrician. I was upfront that this is for EV and I found that it needs GFCI by the code. When electrician in his 20s showed up he did not have GFCI breaker and I had to educate him. The company I hired estimated $800 in labor before taxes and permit, and the plug was 2 feet away from the breaker, so I was not happy with the electrician knowledge and experience when he showed up.

After I sent him back I did little research, pulled $70 permit since my city allows this type of install by owner, and just bought conduit, proper wire, 60Amp breaker and hardwired chargepoint station. Inspection took 5 min and I passed. Overall I spent $70 in permit, $60 in electrical parts and $700 for chargepoint. It took about 2 hours to install, and I was taking my time

Here is what I've learned about chargepont.
1. It's max capacity is 50Amp (on 70Amp breaker (you won't find 65Amp breaker)), however it only have enough space for #6 wire and it would not be up to the code if you wire it like that.
2. There are stricter rules if you want to install 70Amp breaker, like the box must be locked, so it is not worth the trouble at all
3. 48Amp (60Amp breaker) is the ideal (in terms of charging speed) hardwired setup for chargepoint
4. GFCI breaker (if you go NEMA plug) might be troublesome, but ford recommends it officially, so maybe it is just fine when you use it with ford charger
5. If it is an option, go hardwired route. I can charge almost 12kw/h and it only takes 3 hours to fill 50% of my SR battery. You do not even need to leave it overnight anymore. NEMA plugs feel very dated and not designed for EV in mind at all. Also, if you have kids, hardwired setup would be much safer setup.
6. Do not quote me, but I think Mache can only charge at 11kwh/h (48Anmp) on level 2, so 60 Amp breaker setup is the maximum you would need

My advice would be to go hardwired route, however it might be hard to find an electrician who can do this install, maybe I had bad luck, but all electricians I called just wanted to slap NEMA plug, none of them would hardwire the charger.
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NormF

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I have a Chargepoint hardwired on a 50amp breaker and it is excellent. It comes with a 14-50 that you can remove for direct wiring. The charging speed will be fine for your needs. The Chargepoint app is excellent. It knows your electricity provider rate schedule and gives you the KWh of charge and cost per session.
 

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A 100 mile round trip 3 times/week is fairly light use IMO so ANY L2 EVSE is going to almost certainly meet your needs. To keep thinks simple for now.....perhaps you can consider installing a receptacle to power the EVSE that comes with your car at 240v and see how that works for you.
THIS.

No one directly addressed your question about which plug (6-50 or 14-50), so I will: cost-wise it doesn't make a difference when paying to have it installed. Since the charger that comes with the car has a 14-50, put that in so you have a backup. Actually, as greg said you can start with the charger that came with the car.
 

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Actually no. Since he hardwired ChargePoint, it will max out at 50A.
I was commenting on the continuous load capability of the 80A circuit, not the actual connected load.


No one directly addressed your question about which plug (6-50 or 14-50),
I think I did in post #3. :D
 

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I am new to this EV world, and the MME will be my first EV vehicle. (*** So please be gentle with me***)

I want to install a home charger but I dont know which is better and which is needed for the amount of miles I drive for my weekly commute. *50 miles one way 3x times a week.

It is between the ChargePoint (6-50 vs 14-50) or the JuiceBox ( 40 vs 48 and plug in vs. Hardwire)

I am open to either hardwiring or a plug in, I just want to be sure I am able to make it to and from work, factoring in stop and go traffic. Nor am I moving anytime soon, if this plays a factor in the hardwiring advise.

Please help.........
I have plug in Juicebox40. I commute 70 mile/day and I plug in every other day. Easily charges overnight in about 4 hrs. Plug in, I suppose, gives some flexibility for moving to other locations or plugging in other appliances. Have never had any problems with it.
 


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When circuit sharing.....they deliver 24 amps to each vehicle from a single 240v 40A circuit. Which I think is weird
Are you sure about that? The CP info suggests it takes 80% of the available amperage and then divides this equally between the vehicles:

A simple example illustrates how one of the intelligent power sharing algorithms (“Equal Charge”) works. If three charging stations are sharing a single 40-amp (A) circuit:
  • When the power limit is reached, the Power Management algorithm divides the available power budget equally among any additional vehicles that are plugged in. In the example, when a second vehicle plugs in, both vehicles receive 16A, while three vehicles sharing 32A each receive about 10A.
https://www.chargepoint.com/products/power-management-faq/
 

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I personally went with the NEMA 14-50 outlet.

I saw three advantages:

1. You can use the supplied Ford EVSE to see if you really need to purchase a home unit.

2. If your EVSE fails, it is much easier to unplug one and plug in a replacement.

3. You can take it with you on long trips, so you can use it at camper parks to charge if there are no DCFC charges in the area.

JMHO

Jim
 

Jeffvisor

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I am new to this EV world, and the MME will be my first EV vehicle. (*** So please be gentle with me***)

I want to install a home charger but I dont know which is better and which is needed for the amount of miles I drive for my weekly commute. *50 miles one way 3x times a week.

It is between the ChargePoint (6-50 vs 14-50) or the JuiceBox ( 40 vs 48 and plug in vs. Hardwire)

I am open to either hardwiring or a plug in, I just want to be sure I am able to make it to and from work, factoring in stop and go traffic. Nor am I moving anytime soon, if this plays a factor in the hardwiring advise.

Please help.........
I went with the Wallbox 40 amp plug in to the 14-50 wall outlet. Wallbox Pulsar Plus got really good reviews. Wallbox Pulsar Plus EV Charger Full Review - YouTube its small box and a smart charger.
 

SnBGC

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Are you sure about that? The CP info suggests it takes 80% of the available amperage and then divides this equally between the vehicles:

A simple example illustrates how one of the intelligent power sharing algorithms (“Equal Charge”) works. If three charging stations are sharing a single 40-amp (A) circuit:
  • When the power limit is reached, the Power Management algorithm divides the available power budget equally among any additional vehicles that are plugged in. In the example, when a second vehicle plugs in, both vehicles receive 16A, while three vehicles sharing 32A each receive about 10A.
https://www.chargepoint.com/products/power-management-faq/
No. I am not really that sure.....still trying to wrap my head around the documentation we have from ChargePoint. Our company is installing these things at a rapid pace so we are learning about the various configurations still. Early projects were simple. 1 circuit per plug at max power. Easy peasy. Then we have other projects where they have enough power to power two plugs at full power but want 4 or 6 charging spaces. The machines can do that but it gets tricky to set up in the app. Totally doable though.

What we thought was going to be the super easiest is to set a new transformer and a dedicated EV panel. How complicated can that be? Right?
Well.....you need to know how many future spaces the customer might be interested in because it costs about the same to set a 75 kVa transformer and 225A 3 phase panel to power up to 18 cars as it does to use a 200A Single phase panel to power up to 10 cars.

I am rambling now....

Back to topic. :)
Here is the diagram that confused me.
Ford Mustang Mach-E Home Charging - ChargePoint (6-50 vs 14-50) or the JuiceBox ( 40 vs 48 and plug in vs. Hardwire) ? 1619022418706


When I read the document again.....I think this is possible with a dedicated EV panel. The ChargePoint devices can be set up so it knows they are on a dedicated panel and load share that way. This seems like the best case scenario.

The method I referenced in my post was Circuit Share......which isn't really what they are showing in the above diagram. With Circuit Share.....it works like you described in your post. One thing to keep in mind......no EVSE can drop below 8 amps because most all EVs will stop charging if the supply equipment isn't providing 8 amps or greater.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Home Charging - ChargePoint (6-50 vs 14-50) or the JuiceBox ( 40 vs 48 and plug in vs. Hardwire) ? 1619022646991


What is really cool about the panel share and circuit share ideas is that we can have a variety of plug in vehicles using the same bank of charging spaces and each car might get it's max power because the EVSEs are smart enough to know if PHEV is plugged in here while a BEV is plugged in there at 32 amps while another BEV is plugged in over there and can accept 48 amps. However, anything over 32 amps isn't really supported in public charging spaces (yet) but they are very much in play with fleet charging spots.
 

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I personally went with the NEMA 14-50 outlet.

I saw three advantages:

1. You can use the supplied Ford EVSE to see if you really need to purchase a home unit.

2. If your EVSE fails, it is much easier to unplug one and plug in a replacement.

3. You can take it with you on long trips, so you can use it at camper parks to charge if there are no DCFC charges in the area.

JMHO

Jim
You missed another huge advantage on using a plug. When you sell the house the EVSE is not consider a "fixture" and can easily be taken with you.
Technically speaking the mounting bracket is consider a fixture and you are supposed to leave it a lot like tv wall mounts are supposed to be left behind. I know when I sell my current house I will be putting the EVSE on the exclusion list just to be super clear. The next person who buys the house will get the nema 14-50 and they can do what ever they want with it.
 

Jim_I

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You missed another huge advantage on using a plug. When you sell the house the EVSE is not consider a "fixture" and can easily be taken with you.
Technically speaking the mounting bracket is consider a fixture and you are supposed to leave it a lot like tv wall mounts are supposed to be left behind. I know when I sell my current house I will be putting the EVSE on the exclusion list just to be super clear. The next person who buys the house will get the nema 14-50 and they can do what ever they want with it.
Or before you put the house up for sale, you take it off the wall, and fill and paint the mounting holes! ?

Jim
 

mikeho

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I was talking to my contractor about this and learned a few things:
  1. When you have a 200A main panel, the city will likely block the permit if you try to install two 80A circuits (trying to really futureproof here) as there won't be enough power for the rest of the house. You'll have to upgrade the main panel, which will cost more since 200A is generally the accepted max for residential.
  2. 80A needs thicker wires and they may not be compatible with the charger.
  3. You'll want a charging cable longer than 20ft if you want to reach both parking spots in a two-car garage. The standard 18ft makes it pretty hard. And at 18ft, you may not be able to charge a car sitting outside.
So in the end, I decided to install two 60A circuits. Likely one will be hardwired for faster charging and the other will be a 14-50 plug for greater flexibility.
 

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I installed a Chargpoint 14-50 unit using a 50 Amp Circuit. I get 80% of that, or 40 amps. Plenty of juice for a full overnight charge. And the 14-50 plug fits the MME perfectly.
 

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I installed a Chargpoint 14-50 unit using a 50 Amp Circuit. I get 80% of that, or 40 amps. Plenty of juice for a full overnight charge. And the 14-50 plug fits the MME perfectly.
One last warning, do not use the generic $10 outlet from Leviton that you can buy at HomeDepot. It is made for clothes dryers, not constant car charging.
If you look at the picture carefully you will see that the contacts only cover half of the plug. This defeats the whole point of derating the circuit by 20%. This outlet will fail in less than 1/4 of the time that a proper industrial outlet would fail. Not sure how long it is good for, but why spend $50K on a car, over $1K on getting a charger installed, and then possibly setting your house on fire.

702C6923-3E65-4A55-B699-43DDCB660073.jpeg
 

macchiaz-o

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One last warning, do not use the generic $10 outlet from Leviton that you can buy at HomeDepot. It is made for clothes dryers, not constant car charging.
If you look at the picture carefully you will see that the contacts only cover half of the plug. This defeats the whole point of derating the circuit by 20%. This outlet will fail in less than 1/4 of the time that a proper industrial outlet would fail. Not sure how long it is good for, but why spend $50K on a car, over $1K on getting a charger installed, and then possibly setting your house on fire.

702C6923-3E65-4A55-B699-43DDCB660073.jpeg
Strange. The ~$10 Leviton receptacle I bought at Home Depot has longer contact points than the one you found.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Home Charging - ChargePoint (6-50 vs 14-50) or the JuiceBox ( 40 vs 48 and plug in vs. Hardwire) ? PXL_20210422_040541436
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