How far above MSRP should I go?

[ZuleMME]

Extremely unlikely the credit goes away for any car sold this year or next year at this point.

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[RockwallRick]

When you have a Wife that has been car less for months the pressure is on!!! After a LOT of searching I found the exact same car she had on order and got it for MSRP!

 

[VaderMachE]

Mmm I didn't know about the tax credit going away after 200K cars, so if I order chance I lose $7500? Is that likely do we know? That makes a big difference. Until that comment was already set to just be patient, order the perfect one and wait, now not too sure....

We have a long way to go to reach 200k in electric vehicles. I think you'd be just fine placing an order.

 

[JB20]

Mmm I didn't know about the tax credit going away after 200K cars, so if I order chance I lose $7500? Is that likely do we know? That makes a big difference. Until that comment was already set to just be patient, order the perfect one and wait, now not too sure....

Doubtful. 200K sold in the US. Ford has said they plan to build 50K in 2021. Lots of them are going out of country and do not count toward the 200K. So we have a ways to go.

 

[ADDZ71]

I believe that Ford has already sold ~140K vehicles. The reduction in the Fed Tax Credit begins in the quarter after the quarter a manufacturer reaches 200K. At their current sales rate it is expected that they will hit 200K either Q2 or Q3 next year. The credit will be reduced in stages by I think $1250 per quarter.

 

[agoldman]

My answer for this is ZERO over MSRP. I refuse to play this BS game of the dealerships. I honestly want Ford to come down hard on dealerships demanding over MSRP. The punishments for selling the Mach E over MSRP or trying to hurt its sells means no F150 Lightings, last in line for F150s and only the crap models, and no new bronco. Basically the punishment is you screw this up we take away everything and put you at the bottom of the list.

I agree, this sort of nonsense is going to send me right over to tesla regardless of how much nicer the ME is. I just don't want to support this dinasaur business model. So far my dealer hasn't pulled this, but greed is all around.

 

[eckythump]

I agree, this sort of nonsense is going to send me right over to tesla regardless of how much nicer the ME is. I just don't want to support this dinasaur business model. So far my dealer hasn't pulled this, but greed is all around.

Funny you say that, after few days of researching and talking to annoying dealers, I've scheduled a Model Y test drive this weekend. Don't really want to join the Tesla crowd though.

 

[RickMachE]

If you are ordering one, you should not pay a dime over MSRP. If you are buying one on a lot from an order that someone cancelled, most of the dealers are greedy and will charge added markup. I think it is wrong. But...I paid $2750 over MSRP for the luxury of not having to wait. I convinced myself that it was a wash, since I paid with the Ford options credit, which gave me $2500 toward the down payment. it's a good deal, since the financing rate is lower. I'll end up paying about $5K less in the end if I buy it in 3 years. People pay extra to have small things shipped to them faster, and if you are looking at 10 months of waiting, how much would you be paying for gas during that time? Also, if you go with the Ford options credit, that $2500 deal is not going to last forever. And...if Ford sells 200,000 electric vehicles before you get yours, you can kiss the $7500 federal tax credit goodbye.

I looked at the Ford Options Plan last week - and it made no sense to me. Ford offered 0.9% for up to 48 months normal financing. The Ford Options plan was much higher - and the dealer was unable to communicate to me the rate on the lump sum - so even with the higher rebate I wasn't biting, no to mention the added fees.

We get Ford A-Plan, so ... But the dealer does a huge percent of Plan business, and has no intention of stopping.

What ticks me off is that dealers think they can pick and choose when to honor Plan business, on a car by car or model basis. Ford doesn't let them turn it off and on at will, and that should come back and bite them.

Of course, many dealers don't do virtually any plan business. My son bought in California, and they were clueless. My mother bought in central Florida, and they were clueless. In both cases I had to lay out things like "no, you can't charge that for paperwork" or "no, we don't have to take your add-ons".

As to the EV credit, remember it's ALL PHEVs and EVs that a dealer manufacturer makes. 2012- 2018 Focus EV, 2013 - 2017 C-Max Energi, 2013 - 2020 Fusion Energi, 2020 - 2021 Ford Escape PHEV, Mach-E, Lightning, ...

As of end of Q1, Ford is at 141,749, with 7,554 in Q1. https://www.irs.gov/businesses/irc-30d-plug-in-electric-drive-motor-vehicle-credit-quarterly-sales

Ford had built 27,816 Mach-Es by 5/31. But they sold 10,510 another source says...

I believe it drops to 50%, and then 25%, in the quarter after 200,000 vehicles is reached.

We have a Lightning slot on hold, may or may not order it in the Fall when we can. If it misses that full tax credit, that will kill Ford's sales.

There is a proposal to a) extend the credit and b) increase the credit. $2,500 more for vehicles assembled in the US (not the Mach-E), and another $2,500 for vehicles where the workers are represented by a labor union in the US. So the only applicable part is the extension for this vehicle. The Lightning would qualify for $12,500 under the proposed law - nice.

 

[ARK]

I looked at the Ford Options Plan last week - and it made no sense to me. Ford offered 0.9% for up to 48 months normal financing. The Ford Options plan was much higher - and the dealer was unable to communicate to me the rate on the lump sum - so even with the higher rebate I wasn't biting, no to mention the added fees.

I believe the best Options rate is 2.25%. Basically, you pay a higher rate because you get the choice of giving the vehicle back to Ford at the end of the term at a guaranteed price that will wipe out your balloon payment (even if the vehicle has depreciated far, far more than expected and is worth a lot less than the balloon payment), so it functions like a quasi-lease. On the flip side, if Ford was wrong about valuation, and your Mach-E is worth a lot more, then, when the loan is ending, you can just make the balloon payment or refinance it to keep the vehicle instead of giving it back to Ford.

Essentially, the 'options' aren't free - they are paid through a higher interest rate.

 

[RickMachE]

I believe the best Options rate is 2.25%. Basically, you pay a higher rate because you get the choice of giving the vehicle back to Ford at the end of the term at a guaranteed price that will wipe out your balloon payment (even if the vehicle has depreciated far, far more than expected and is worth a lot less than the balloon payment), so it functions like a quasi-lease. On the flip side, if Ford was wrong about valuation, and your Mach-E is worth a lot more, then, when the loan is ending, you can just make the balloon payment or refinance it to keep the vehicle instead of giving it back to Ford.

Essentially, the 'options' aren't free - they are paid through a higher interest rate.

I was unclear if they were accumulating 2.25% interest on the balloon payment over that period. The residual for the Premium with the Extended battery was 35% for 48 months. If you drop from 15,000 miles to 7,500 miles, it went up to 39%.

So, assuming a $55,000 car, 39% residual is $21,450. That means you're financing $33,550 over 4 years at 2.25%. That's $1,564 interest over that period, plus any fees for the Ford Options program, plus whatever they're going to tag the $21,450 residual with for interest, if anything.

0.9% on $55,000 over 4 years is $1,017 in interest.

 

[ARK]

I was unclear if they were accumulating 2.25% interest on the balloon payment over that period. The residual for the Premium with the Extended battery was 35% for 48 months. If you drop from 15,000 miles to 7,500 miles, it went up to 39%.

So, assuming a $55,000 car, 39% residual is $21,450. That means you're financing $33,550 over 4 years at 2.25%. That's $1,564 interest over that period, plus any fees for the Ford Options program, plus whatever they're going to tag the $21,450 residual with for interest, if anything.

0.9% on $55,000 over 4 years is $1,017 in interest.

As I understand it, the loan is simple interest. But yes, you do pay interest on the balloon portion as well.

But the balloon payment isn't growing over time, it is the same whether you pay the whole loan off one Day 1 or on the very last day you can. This is because your payment each month is first going to the interest that has built up since you made your last payment (and the interest that builds on the entire amount you owe, which includes the final balloon payment).

So if you pay the loan off sooner, you avoid months/years of the simple interest being generated each month. But it is not compounding, your balloon amount is never increasing.

Importantly though, Ford is offering a $2,500 or $1,000 incentive for people to take Options (it varies by state, I think - it was $2,500 in California). You very well may end up paying less interest with the higher 2.25% Options interest rate because of this Ford incentive. This is particularly true if you intend to finance a relatively small portion of the vehicle's purchase price.

 

[hybrid2bev]

I was unclear if they were accumulating 2.25% interest on the balloon payment over that period. The residual for the Premium with the Extended battery was 35% for 48 months. If you drop from 15,000 miles to 7,500 miles, it went up to 39%.

So, assuming a $55,000 car, 39% residual is $21,450. That means you're financing $33,550 over 4 years at 2.25%. That's $1,564 interest over that period, plus any fees for the Ford Options program, plus whatever they're going to tag the $21,450 residual with for interest, if anything.

0.9% on $55,000 over 4 years is $1,017 in interest.

There's no acquisition fees for Ford Options.

 

[atlz_best]

just contacted a dealer in OH (from GA) who wanted for an e-AWD (ext range) MSRP +5k, would not budge.
Not gonna happen, my threshold is +1.5k, anything over is just plain dumb (for me)

I have a GT on order but AWD ext range has everything i want for 7k less.

 

[machefan]

Mmm I didn't know about the tax credit going away after 200K cars, so if I order chance I lose $7500? Is that likely do we know? That makes a big difference. Until that comment was already set to just be patient, order the perfect one and wait, now not too sure....

Maybe search about it for answers. It’s not till sometime next year and it’s not all at once. There’s already lots of info on this on the forum.

 

[digdug52]

Funny you say that, after few days of researching and talking to annoying dealers, I've scheduled a Model Y test drive this weekend. Don't really want to join the Tesla crowd though.

One thing to remember, unless you search for and can find an inventory car available, the current wait for delivery on Model Y orders is 7 to 12 weeks on the Performance model and in October for the non performance dual motor.

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