How will Ford get over ‘Range Anxiety’

[silverelan]

The Bolt is a crossover? There are lots more (due out within the next couple of years) to add to this list, including Tesla Model Y, Porsche Macan BEV, the Rivian SUV, and the Polestar 3.

People won't be buying BEVs without awareness of the public-charging infrastructure. Most BEV owners/buyers today only care marginally about public charging, as most of them do 95%-100% of their charging at home. I will be in the camp of charging close to 100% of the time at home when I buy my first BEV, so I won't care one iota about the public-charging situation as a reason to buy (or not buy) a BEV; I'll be keeping an ICEV in the stable for long-distance driving, or I'll rent an ICEV. No big deal. BEVs are superb for local commuting; range anxiety is way over-hyped. So few BEV owners do long-distance trips with them.

Yes, Chevy Bolt EUV is in development.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27542133/chevrolet-bolt-euv-2021-crossover-spied/

There's also a new Hyundai/KIA coming with 300mi range.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/...ectric-car-slated-for-production-report-says/

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[JamieGeek]

It's easy to forget what it means to be so early in the EV adoption phase. ...

Early? We're a decade in. I've been driving plugins now for 7 years.

 

[silverelan]

Early? We're a decade in. I've been driving plugins now for 7 years.

Yup, we are early. So early there's even a name for the group of buyers who are springing for the Mach-E: Early Adopters.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations

 

[dbsb3233]

If you are going on a long trip where multiple charges are necessary it is a little bit better to "opportunity charge" rather than "range charge".

By "opportunity charge" I mean charge at stations as you come across them, and not plan that charge 150 miles ahead--maybe there is a DCFC only 50 miles ahead with no one charging. By spending 15-20 minutes there topping off (well topping up to 80%) you may be able to extend your range out beyond the next DCFC that may be in use.

Driving this way means you stop more, but your stops are shorter.

I think you're right. The whole exercise of taking a BEV on a long road trip is tenuous enough that it probably makes sense to take a "just in case" approach of charging more frequent whenever you can in case something goes wrong with that target station at the 10% mark.

But such added compromise is also the reason I'll just take my ICE vehicle on any road trips instead, and relegate the BEV to being the "home-only" vehicle. As long as I'm driving <150 miles in a day (starting and ending at home), I'll drive the Mach-e. Otherwise I'll just drive the ICE. It's not worth all that extra precaution and compromise and stress as long as I have a 2nd vehicle that doesn't need all that.

My plan is to do 100% of charging at home and never use a retail charger.

 

[Trede]

Check out the thread on road trips...It's not as bad as you think. TL;DR - You should stop every 2 hours for 15 minutes and not exceed 8 hours of driving per day regardless of what you're driving. This will reduce your risk of developing blood clots in your legs, and keep you more alert at the wheel. Also, instead of eating in your car, just stop and charge while you eat breakfast/lunch/dinner.

Also, I commute ~46 miles per day to/from work (edit for clarification: about 23 miles each way). Even if I can only plug in for 8 hours, I only need to get ~6 miles per hour of charging to get that back, and chances are I'll usually be plugged in for longer. Range anxiety shouldn't really be a thing with 200-300 miles of range, you just need to road trip a little differently (and honestly, it's safer for you and everyone else on the road anyway). (EDIT: - Also, don't plan to road trip to/through the Dakotas, Montana, or Wyoming because they apparently don't have charging stations)

 

[silverelan]

Check out the thread on road trips...It's not as bad as you think. TL;DR - You should stop every 2 hours for 15 minutes and not exceed 8 hours of driving per day regardless of what you're driving. This will reduce your risk of developing blood clots in your legs, and keep you more alert at the wheel. Also, instead of eating in your car, just stop and charge while you eat breakfast/lunch/dinner.

Also, I commute ~46 miles per day to/from work (edit for clarification: about 23 miles each way). Even if I can only plug in for 8 hours, I only need to get ~6 miles per hour of charging to get that back, and chances are I'll usually be plugged in for longer. Range anxiety shouldn't really be a thing with 200-300 miles of range, you just need to road trip a little differently (and honestly, it's safer for you and everyone else on the road anyway). (EDIT: - Also, don't plan to road trip to/through the Dakotas, Montana, or Wyoming because they apparently don't have charging stations)

I agree, if you shift the philosophy of refueling from only when at a quarter tank to every time you stop, charging becomes less time consuming.

However, my two counterpoints to the ABC (always be charging) is that

1) your head space gets taken up by constantly considering charging opportunities
2) EA is expensive af.

 

[dbsb3233]

Just depends on each person's situation. And their tolerance for compromise. And their viable alternatives. For some people their typical road trip may only be 300 miles at slower speeds, where not as much compromise is needed. For others it's 800 miles at high speeds, which would require a ton of compromise.

If I were doing the former drive, I might consider driving the BEV. But for the latter, no way.

It's really not all that different than owning, say, one car and one pickup. For a road trip with the family, I'd drive the car. For a run to the lumber yard or the furniture store, I'm taking the pickup. Smartest choice for each purpose.

Similarly, for daily home-base driving (<150 miles), I'll drive my Mach-e. For anything longer I'll drive my Escape.

 

[dbsb3233]

If there is a free charging spot. With only 4 EZ chargers at many locations, what is the chance you will arrive to find one that is not in use? This is going to be a learning experience and if significantly more charging spots and locations don't arrive, some of us are going to become frustrated with longer/lond distance driving in an EV.

Gives new meaning to road trips being an "adventure". I keep hearing Barney Stinson saying "Challenge Accepted!" in the back of my mind at the thought of venturing out on a 700 mile road trip in a BEV. It's almost like a scavenger hunt, or a road rally, to see if you can plan and safely execute a route that gets you there from charger to charger.

Might be a fun challenge the first time but after that I'd be looking for less risky "challenge" and more flexibility/dependability again.

But I'll have the luxury of having 2 vehicles to pick from at any time (the Mach-e and an Escape). I know some others won't have that luxury and it becomes a much tougher decision.

 

[silverelan]

The good news with Electrify America is that they plan on expanding locations. Yesterday, there were 377 stations. This morning there are 379 stations. By the end of next year, there will be 800 stations. So recharging anxiety will continue to diminish.

The next problem is charging speed. 45 minutes is just too slow.

 

[dbsb3233]

The good news with Electrify America is that they plan on expanding locations. Yesterday, there were 377 stations. This morning there are 379 stations. By the end of next year, there will be 800 stations. So recharging anxiety will continue to diminish.

The next problem is charging speed. 45 minutes is just too slow.

And then better efficiency at high speeds. So that 300 mile range actually means 300 miles (or close to it) on interstates, instead of 160-200.

It's the combination of those 2 things (slow charging and frequent charging if driving high speeds) that's the double-whammy for me. They combine to produce the most meaningful stat: total charging time at retail stations. One hour total might OK. 3-4 hours probably isn't. (Not when an ICE car can refuel the entire drive in under 15 minutes.)

 

[Billyk24]

The good news with Electrify America is that they plan on expanding locations. Yesterday, there were 377 stations. This morning there are 379 stations. By the end of next year, there will be 800 stations. So recharging anxiety will continue to diminish.

The next problem is charging speed. 45 minutes is just too slow.

The EA chargers are rated up to 350 KWh. The Mach E should charge at 150kWh as stated in the Ford PR-will it increase between now and November 2020?. The Mach E extended range HVB is 98.9 kWh. If one needs a 60kW refill, then at 150kWh rate this would be 24 minutes not 45. If the rate was 125 kWh like most Tesla chargers, then the time would be just under 29 minutes. Real world rates in "normal weather-warm" is likely going to be a mix of the two so I would guess 26 minutes to obtain 60KWh refill. An additional 10kWh fill-up at 150kWh rate will add 4 minutes and just under 5 minutes at the 125kWh rate. Will the real world experience be different? Who knows at this time.

 

[silverelan]

The EA chargers are rated up to 350 KWh. The Mach E should charge at 150kWh as stated in the Ford PR-will it increase between now and November 2020?. The Mach E extended range HVB is 98.9 kWh. If one needs a 60kW refill, then at 150kWh rate this would be 24 minutes not 45. If the rate was 125 kWh like most Tesla chargers, then the time would be just under 29 minutes. Real world rates in "normal weather-warm" is likely going to be a mix of the two so I would guess 26 minutes to obtain 60KWh refill. An additional 10kWh fill-up at 150kWh rate will add 4 minutes and just under 5 minutes at the 125kWh rate. Will the real world experience be different? Who knows at this time.

It'll be interesting to learn the car's charging curve, that's for sure. I can't wait for Bjorn Nyland to take the car thru its paces.

With a 99kWh battery, the car's charging is likely benchmarked against a Tesla S/X 100D. If so, we'll see max charging between 10%->50% and the taper starts from there with the power down by half (75kW) at around the 65% SoC level. That's actually the point that most experienced EV drivers bail on the charging session and move on to the next one.

 

[timbop]

The EA chargers are rated up to 350 KWh. The Mach E should charge at 150kWh as stated in the Ford PR-will it increase between now and November 2020?. The Mach E extended range HVB is 98.9 kWh. If one needs a 60kW refill, then at 150kWh rate this would be 24 minutes not 45. If the rate was 125 kWh like most Tesla chargers, then the time would be just under 29 minutes. Real world rates in "normal weather-warm" is likely going to be a mix of the two so I would guess 26 minutes to obtain 60KWh refill. An additional 10kWh fill-up at 150kWh rate will add 4 minutes and just under 5 minutes at the 125kWh rate. Will the real world experience be different? Who knows at this time.

Recharging follows a bell curve with the PEAK at 150kwh; on the shoulders (and especially the ends) of the curve it is far less

 

[Billyk24]

Recharging follows a bell curve with the PEAK at 150kwh; on the shoulders (and especially the ends) of the curve it is far less

i'm not so sure the PEAK will be 150kWh. If Tesla is going higher and EA has chargers with a Peak of 350 kWh, then can we speculate that new development is on-going and with production not slated until October 2020, an uptick in the Peak kWh numbers is possible.

 

[dbsb3233]

i'm not so sure the PEAK will be 150kWh. If Tesla is going higher and EA has chargers with a Peak of 350 kWh, then can we speculate that new development is on-going and with production not slated until October 2020, an uptick in the Peak kWh numbers is possible.

That would sure be nice, but I'm doubtful that will happen for the 2021's. We've been told that the reason production is capped at 50,000 for the 2021 model year is limited availability of the batteries. Which suggests to me that they're struggling just to crank out the existing battery design and formulation, let alone have the time and resources to implement a new design yet.

Tesla is just years ahead in the battery game, especially energy density. Not sure how long they'll maintain that head start and when the others will finally catch up, but I'm doubtful it will be this year. Hope I'm wrong though.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-batteries-best-range-explained-auto-experts/

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