HV Battery Replacement Cost

[breeves002]

I ran a fellow forum members VIN through OASIS that had the HVB replaced under warranty. I attached a screenshot of the claim into Ford. This is a standard range Mach-E.

According to this claim it was $34101.94 in parts and $4009.80 in labor. This seems unrealistic considering the HVB says $34048.97 yet I asked my parts guy for the cost of that part number listed and it is only about $18,000 my cost (standard range pack). I'm not sure about core charges or shipping though. I'm sure shipping costs a fortune.

Total HVB replacement cost $38,111.74. This is the amount billed to Ford and the claim was approved because it showed up in OASIS (or so I think). These numbers could be wrong - I could just be totally wrong on how it works, but I don't see why it would be listed otherwise.

One interesting thing is there was no labor operation for this. It was just M time which means whatever it took. 24.6 labor hours seems a *little* extreme to me but hey, I wasn't there.

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[phidauex]

Wow, that is wild. The $34k number seems crazy to me... The wholesale cost of assembled lithium ion battery modules from tier 1 suppliers (so the big black boxes inside the whole pack, but not the pack assembly and orange busbars) is $140-$160/kWh right now (and I'm sure Ford is on the lower end of that range), which would make the cost of the batteries themselves more in the $15k range. Add a few thousand in buswork, connectors, hoses, controls and BMS modules, and the $18k pack price sounds pretty reasonable. I'm not sure how you get all the way to $34k unless you are just doing the old fashioned 100% margin on parts deal.

25 hours of labor seems long too, but I assume that included a fair amount of "first time through" issues, and a lot of extra troubleshooting of the pack itself with Ford engineers on the phone. It feels like a simple pack swap should be more in the 8 hour range, maybe a little more for the coolant flush and refill.

 

[breeves002]

Wow, that is wild. The $34k number seems crazy to me... The wholesale cost of assembled lithium ion battery modules from tier 1 suppliers (so the big black boxes inside the whole pack, but not the pack assembly and orange busbars) is $140-$160/kWh right now (and I'm sure Ford is on the lower end of that range), which would make the cost of the batteries themselves more in the $15k range. Add a few thousand in buswork, connectors, hoses, controls and BMS modules, and the $18k pack price sounds pretty reasonable. I'm not sure how you get all the way to $34k unless you are just doing the old fashioned 100% margin on parts deal.

I know Ford does pay dealers parts markup but I don't know what the % is. It is entirely possible that they did not actually pay this much, but I just do not know. All I know is what OASIS tells me.

$18k is MY cost so actual dealer cost is roughly 6% less. So about $17k dealer cost which makes sense to me.

 

[phidauex]

I know Ford does pay dealers parts markup but I don't know what the % is. It is entirely possible that they did not actually pay this much, but I just do not know. All I know is what OASIS tells me.

$18k is MY cost so actual dealer cost is roughly 6% less. So about $17k dealer cost which makes sense to me.

Ah, I missed the "my cost" part - so that actually lines up quite well with my guesstimate. I'm sure a markup would be in there (Ford -> dealer and dealer -> consumer), but I can't see them doing 100% markup on a part that high in value, 5-10% maybe, which is already quite rich.

 

[breeves002]

Ah, I missed the "my cost" part - so that actually lines up quite well with my guesstimate. I'm sure a markup would be in there (Ford -> dealer and dealer -> consumer), but I can't see them doing 100% markup on a part that high in value, 5-10% maybe, which is already quite rich.

Big ticket items they're usually more willing to make a deal on. Something like this the parts dept would probably do like $1000 markup on it. They make money still and customer may actually do it. Though honestly I can't see anyone paying for an out of warranty battery replacement with that cost from the dealer... Normal small parts markup is 20% unless you use the online retailers which are usually 10%+shipping.

 

[phidauex]

Big ticket items they're usually more willing to make a deal on. Something like this the parts dept would probably do like $1000 markup on it. They make money still and customer may actually do it. Though honestly I can't see anyone paying for an out of warranty battery replacement with that cost from the dealer... Normal small parts markup is 20% unless you use the online retailers which are usually 10%+shipping.

Right now? No, but in 10 years, after the price has come down significantly, sure. I paid $3000 to replace the battery in our 2006 Prius (after 14 years and 180k miles) and while it seemed like a big price at the time, when I put it all in our spreadsheets that Prius is still the lowest TCO car we've ever owned. If you do next to zero maintenance on the MachE for 10 years, then drop $9000 on a slightly higher than stock capacity battery then your cost per mile will still be very favorable. It will just feel like a shock because you are spending it all at once instead of a bit every year.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Maybe this is like medical billing where we're only seeing the first super inflated pricing before it gets negotiated down.

If not, if this service dept is being particularly egregious with their practices, then Ford will likely find multiple ways to penalize their behavior.

 

[TheCats]

Wow, that is wild. The $34k number seems crazy to me... The wholesale cost of assembled lithium ion battery modules from tier 1 suppliers (so the big black boxes inside the whole pack, but not the pack assembly and orange busbars) is $140-$160/kWh right now (and I'm sure Ford is on the lower end of that range), which would make the cost of the batteries themselves more in the $15k range. Add a few thousand in buswork, connectors, hoses, controls and BMS modules, and the $18k pack price sounds pretty reasonable. I'm not sure how you get all the way to $34k unless you are just doing the old fashioned 100% margin on parts deal.

25 hours of labor seems long too, but I assume that included a fair amount of "first time through" issues, and a lot of extra troubleshooting of the pack itself with Ford engineers on the phone. It feels like a simple pack swap should be more in the 8 hour range, maybe a little more for the coolant flush and refill.

25 hours of labor seems quite reasonable for a first-ever battery replacement at a dealer.

I generally can beat shop time for a first-time DIY, but only with the experience of others to guide me. Most of that experience is null -- 'nothing special about this step or there would be a bunch of people talking about it'.

Being one of the first to open a HV battery involves a whole bunch of slow, guarded actions. There shouldn't be any exposed wiring, but wire insulation might have unexpected peeled back, or a plastic shield unclipped. After a few dozen have been done, those lessons will be learned and talked about. Before then.. no objection to taking extra time and paying for a safety observer.

 

[Nklem]

My Hyundai Ioniq 28 kw battery is $16,500 from Hyundai, discounted from list. Since the Mach e is twice that capacity, it seems close. We will never see $3k EV batteries. Just ask Gen 1 leaf Owners, still $12k. I wonder if they received all the components and replaced them, labor makes sense, or the whole pack came assembled.

 

[breeves002]

My Hyundai Ioniq 28 kw battery is $16,500 from Hyundai, discounted from list. Since the Mach e is twice that capacity, it seems close. We will never see $3k EV batteries. Just ask Gen 1 leaf Owners, still $12k. I wonder if they received all the components and replaced them, labor makes sense, or the whole pack came assembled.

The part number claimed is for the whole pack.

 

[MachEnation]

These costs have to come down. There is no way there will be mass adoption of EVs if everyone knows there's a $10-$20K bill waiting for you in the 150K+ mile range. It just won't happen.

 

[iankellogg]

Yeah that's an insane amount of money for a battery pack. I am confident when the time comes i'll be swapping out cells instead of doing an entire pack. Just like i've done with the hybrids, most cells will still be good and a few bad cells will screw things up.

 

[HDer]

The cost per kWh will continue to come down but the biggest difference is going to be, in my opinion, a new generation of mechanics who will be trained on how to diagnose and replace individual battery cells.

All those barely depreciating Teslas will need somebody to do the out of warranty repairs.

 

[Ztug]

I just got my car back after several months in the body shop after a relatively minor damage,

collision with several small wild pigs. I was praying that the battery would not have to be replaced too because just the front end repair was $16,000! If you add it a $34,000 battery you're up to about what I paid for the car and then of course you can't get one to replace it

 

[kennethjk]

I keep thinking , what happens when battery needs to be replaced after say 10 years, I guess you don’t want to be that person who has the car at the end, makes a resale after 7 years pretty tough

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