I bought a new Mach-E on Tuesday, 6/14

ToadStool

Banned
Banned
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
68
Reaction score
105
Location
PNW
Vehicles
Ford Mach E GT
Country flag
Yes, I'm a lawyer but my area of expertise has nothing to do with this situation and law school was 20 years ago. šŸ˜‚ I don't think I have any friends who specialize in this area of law, unfortunately. I agree with the poster who said that what you posted concerns spot delivery, the rules about which vary state by state. We're in Maryland, which has a 4-day rule.



@Rfehl62 Can you (or can someone else) elaborate on this ^? Our temporary tag expires on 8-13-22, and it seems the recall issue won't be resolved by then. Are we not going to be able to get permanent license plates from our DMV? We're traveling this week and could try to get our plates next week, but we were hoping to know what to expect.



We insured the car before we drove it off the lot. The bank we got the loan with (via Ford Motor Credit) is listed as the lien holder on our policy.



We traded in a 2008 Honda that needs work. We bought the MME now because we're going on a road trip on Tuesday (along with a longer one in July) and we didn't want to take the Honda. I hope it's true that any used car on the lot can be a loaner. They have some used Teslas....



That may be true, but no one from the dealership told us that. They called us 3 days after we took possession of the car and told us we need to bring it back because there was a recall. They sent us a photo of the recall notice. No more details or explanation than that. I'd love to know about any ramifications to us if don't return the car -- that's why I posted here in the first place.

We're certainly not trying to screw the dealer. This is our first transaction with them and it was OK aside from this major screw-up (though completing the actual transaction of buying the car took FOREVER). We just don't want to bring the car back to them and be left without a reliable car for months. Also, we like the car. :) If they'd called us Monday (6/13) and told us not to come in Tuesday to buy the car we'd have found another option so we'd have a car that we could take on a road trip this week. We'd love an EV loaner, but if that's not possible an ICE loaner with a gas card would also work. I don't think we'd ask for any part of the penalty they're subject to. As an aside, I'm not even sure what bringing the car back to them actually accomplishes. They already delivered the car to us, so aren't they already subject to the fine?
I doubt the dealership will be fined. It appears to be more of timing issues and they can probably show in good faith they attempted to get the car back immediately upon recognizing their mistake.

I'm sure we all have a few horror stories to share about past experiences with dealers. Regrettably, it's all too easy to assume they are all out for blood (our money) but as we know there are also some good well-intended dealers out there that get hurt as a result of the bad dealers.

Neither mine nor my buddy's dealership in northern California also will not sell over msrp when perhaps the vast majority of Ford dealers do. Yours sold the Mach E for $3k over msrp too. They didn't gouge you with only $3k but they demonstrated that they're not one of the more ethical dealerships.

Hence, I would enter into negotations with the dealership with that mindset.

If you don't play ball, it could unnecessarily snowball and get ugly for you (and them) eventually. Ford Credit may not finance you, your temp registration will expire, and the state may not deliver to you the permanent registration, thereby making it potentially impossible to insure the Mach E. Worst case the dealer could eventually file or threaten to file a stolen vehicle with the police. Worst case. But remember, we live in crazy days and I wouldn't put it past them to perhaps try this. But really bad for them if they did try.

The dealership does not need to know that you know these things but since you have the vehicle, you are a bit in the driver's seat.

Hence, I suggest you reach out to them by reminding them what a bind this puts you in and ask them what they're willing to do to mitigate your damages. After all you will be making monthly payments for a vehicle you can't drive plus they already took your Honda in on trade.

Here's what I'd put on the table for them to ponder.

1. A written guarantee that once the Mach E is fixed, it's yours. MINUS the $3k added markup. Maybe even $3k under msrp.

2. A reasonble replacement loaner until the Mach E is ready to deliver. Preferably another EV. If a gas loaner, then as others suggested, they should supply a gas card.

That seems pretty fair and reasonable all around. And really they are not in much of a position to negotiate. Then again, neither are you but they may not quite realize that yet.

My 2 cents. And you get what you pay for. :)

Good luck.
 
Last edited:

AKgrampy

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Jan 29, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
2,835
Reaction score
2,785
Location
Fairbanks, Alaska
Vehicles
Ford Expedition, Ford F-150, Mach E GT
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Yes, I'm a lawyer but my area of expertise has nothing to do with this situation and law school was 20 years ago. šŸ˜‚ I don't think I have any friends who specialize in this area of law, unfortunately. I agree with the poster who said that what you posted concerns spot delivery, the rules about which vary state by state. We're in Maryland, which has a 4-day rule.



@Rfehl62 Can you (or can someone else) elaborate on this ^? Our temporary tag expires on 8-13-22, and it seems the recall issue won't be resolved by then. Are we not going to be able to get permanent license plates from our DMV? We're traveling this week and could try to get our plates next week, but we were hoping to know what to expect.



We insured the car before we drove it off the lot. The bank we got the loan with (via Ford Motor Credit) is listed as the lien holder on our policy.



We traded in a 2008 Honda that needs work. We bought the MME now because we're going on a road trip on Tuesday (along with a longer one in July) and we didn't want to take the Honda. I hope it's true that any used car on the lot can be a loaner. They have some used Teslas....



That may be true, but no one from the dealership told us that. They called us 3 days after we took possession of the car and told us we need to bring it back because there was a recall. They sent us a photo of the recall notice. No more details or explanation than that. I'd love to know about any ramifications to us if don't return the car -- that's why I posted here in the first place.

We're certainly not trying to screw the dealer. This is our first transaction with them and it was OK aside from this major screw-up (though completing the actual transaction of buying the car took FOREVER). We just don't want to bring the car back to them and be left without a reliable car for months. Also, we like the car. :) If they'd called us Monday (6/13) and told us not to come in Tuesday to buy the car we'd have found another option so we'd have a car that we could take on a road trip this week. We'd love an EV loaner, but if that's not possible an ICE loaner with a gas card would also work. I don't think we'd ask for any part of the penalty they're subject to. As an aside, I'm not even sure what bringing the car back to them actually accomplishes. They already delivered the car to us, so aren't they already subject to the fine?
I am not a lawyer; although, I did save my son over $13,000 by remembering one paragraph from a law class I took towards an MBA. I actually think things will work out fine for you but it would be important, at least to me, to understand any potential ramifications. The dealer most likely will be OK to, penalty-wise, as it appears they did or are doing their best to correct the situation. My only concern in a case like yours would be do you get into a hot-spot for not complying? Probably not but that is why I commented concerning the FC financing as they may know more.
 

GreaseMonkey

Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Oct 3, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
1,551
Reaction score
2,285
Location
Chicago, IL
Vehicles
2022 Mach-E Premium ER AWD
Country flag
Here's what I'd put on the table for them to ponder.

1. A written guarantee that once the Mach E is fixed, it's yours. MINUS the $3k added markup. Maybe even $3k under msrp.

2. A reasonble replacement loaner until the Mach E is ready to deliver. Preferably another EV. If a gas loaner, then as others suggested, they should supply a gas card.

That seems pretty fair and reasonable all around. And really they are not in much of a position to negotiate. Then again, neither are you but they may not quite realize that yet.

My 2 cents. And you get what you pay for. :)

Good luck.
This is a great answer and what I would do if I were in the buyersā€™ shoes.

I think this is a perfect opportunity to reconsider the financials of the deal, in addition to securing transportation for the summer.

I would only add that you agreed to pay $3k ADM on the premise that dealer is selling a vehicle in high demand, in a perfect condition and with a marketable title, that you would take delivery of immediatelyā€¦not one that maybe gets delivered in 2 months, but likely much longer given Fordā€™s lousy record, has a safety recall that Ford has no solution for yet (reference NHTSA recall notice), that Fordā€™s solution could result in deteriorating the vehicleā€™s charging or WOT performance, etc.

I would add that the experience that the Canadian member had is very relevant to illustrate what a reasonable dealer would do even with 0 ADM. They should do better.

I would also make it known to them that you are a lawyer if thatā€™s not abundantly clear.

Iā€™m not a lawyer, but do spend half my time hanging out with our companyā€™s ultra conservative general counsel arguing angles I can use to not get fleeced while purchasing over $1B worth of junk.

Everything in life is a negotiation and you have a great hand to play.

Also my 2 cents. Good luck.
 
Last edited:

Oldbutalive

Active Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Mar 14, 2022
Threads
4
Messages
37
Reaction score
9
Location
Atlanta
Vehicles
2022 Mache
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
That's right. We bought the Mach-E Select AWD the day after the stop-sale recall. First thing the next morning my husband saw a news story about the recall (this was the first we'd heard of it).

The dealer called today (Friday, 6/17) to tell us about the recall. They told us the car needs to be brought back today and won't be available to us until after the service is complete. My husband asked how long it would take, they said we'd get it by the end of August. He told them this would leave us without a car, they said they would see what they could do (without promising anything).

Our assessment is that they're trying to cover their butts by asking us to bring the car back. We have a second car, but it's a 2008 Ford Focus not exactly suited for long trips, which is what we're planning to take on Tuesday (120 miles) and in July (300 miles) (which is one of the reasons we decided to go electric!). If they can't give us an EV loaner, we're considering refusing to bring it back and waiting for the fix whenever it's available.

Are there any downsides to us in this plan (aside from the apparently remote possibility that we experience the issue that's the cause of the recall)? And is this how new car sales are supposed to work? Isn't there a problem with selling a new car with a known defect?
Your dealer is on the hook. They can be fined by the Feds so it is legit request. I am stuck MY car is in dealer inventory; I can visit my car. "test drive" my car; but they cannot pass title until the fix is installed. If you were factoring in the $7500 Federal Tax credit suggest you talk to your accountant and have them prepare paperwork with your dated sales order. Ford is almost out of room on the 200,000 unit cap. The program also allowed PLUG IN Hybrids from 2012! At the end of December 2021 Ford had sold 159,538 qualifying units in the US Market for Plug-in EV. I noted that 2021's total was ONLY 32,947!!!! Some on the blog have assumed that ALL production from Mexico came to the US. WRONG 20 EU countries and Canada share in that production. BUT the E-Transit Van, Lightning and the Escape Plug In all count towards the cap.
 


RickMachE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Threads
200
Messages
13,134
Reaction score
17,853
Location
SE MI
Vehicles
2022 Mach-E Premium 4X, 2022 Lightning Lariat
Country flag
Your dealer is on the hook. They can be fined by the Feds so it is legit request. I am stuck MY car is in dealer inventory; I can visit my car. "test drive" my car; but they cannot pass title until the fix is installed. If you were factoring in the $7500 Federal Tax credit suggest you talk to your accountant and have them prepare paperwork with your dated sales order. Ford is almost out of room on the 200,000 unit cap. The program also allowed PLUG IN Hybrids from 2012! At the end of December 2021 Ford had sold 159,538 qualifying units in the US Market for Plug-in EV. I noted that 2021's total was ONLY 32,947!!!! Some on the blog have assumed that ALL production from Mexico came to the US. WRONG 20 EU countries and Canada share in that production. BUT the E-Transit Van, Lightning and the Escape Plug In all count towards the cap.
If Ford hits 200,000 in Q3, 100% of the credit lasts until the end of the year. Similarly, if they hit it before the end of this quarter (they won't), it would be 100% through the end of Q3. There is zero risk of the OP losing the full credit.
 

Rfehl62

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ryan
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
185
Reaction score
181
Location
Houston
Vehicles
Mach-E GTPE
Occupation
Ford Sales consultant
Country flag
Yes, I'm a lawyer but my area of expertise has nothing to do with this situation and law school was 20 years ago. šŸ˜‚ I don't think I have any friends who specialize in this area of law, unfortunately. I agree with the poster who said that what you posted concerns spot delivery, the rules about which vary state by state. We're in Maryland, which has a 4-day rule.



@Rfehl62 Can you (or can someone else) elaborate on this ^? Our temporary tag expires on 8-13-22, and it seems the recall issue won't be resolved by then. Are we not going to be able to get permanent license plates from our DMV? We're traveling this week and could try to get our plates next week, but we were hoping to know what to expect.



We insured the car before we drove it off the lot. The bank we got the loan with (via Ford Motor Credit) is listed as the lien holder on our policy.



We traded in a 2008 Honda that needs work. We bought the MME now because we're going on a road trip on Tuesday (along with a longer one in July) and we didn't want to take the Honda. I hope it's true that any used car on the lot can be a loaner. They have some used Teslas....



That may be true, but no one from the dealership told us that. They called us 3 days after we took possession of the car and told us we need to bring it back because there was a recall. They sent us a photo of the recall notice. No more details or explanation than that. I'd love to know about any ramifications to us if don't return the car -- that's why I posted here in the first place.

We're certainly not trying to screw the dealer. This is our first transaction with them and it was OK aside from this major screw-up (though completing the actual transaction of buying the car took FOREVER). We just don't want to bring the car back to them and be left without a reliable car for months. Also, we like the car. :) If they'd called us Monday (6/13) and told us not to come in Tuesday to buy the car we'd have found another option so we'd have a car that we could take on a road trip this week. We'd love an EV loaner, but if that's not possible an ICE loaner with a gas card would also work. I don't think we'd ask for any part of the penalty they're subject to. As an aside, I'm not even sure what bringing the car back to them actually accomplishes. They already delivered the car to us, so aren't they already subject to the fine?
At most dealerships, we are not able to register the vehicle and move it through the process until after it has been punched with Ford (cannot be done with an open recall in place). The dealer will not tell you this but you would almost certainly be driving around in expired tags if the recall is not resolved by then. Now, I am a dealer in Texas so the rules may be different where you are but those are at least the rules where I am at.
 
OP
OP

dracisk

Member
First Name
Kim
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Threads
4
Messages
22
Reaction score
43
Location
Silver Spring, MD
Vehicles
2022 Ford Mach-E Select AWD
Occupation
lawyer
Country flag
Update: The dealer called us this morning and said they don't have an EV loaner. They have a Ford Escape, which gets 26 miles per gallon, that we can borrow. We asked if they could compensate us for gas and they're looking into it. The person we spoke to said he'd talk to the dealership's concierge department.

The dealer also said the manufacturer wants the car back ASAP (we're going out of town tomorrow) and that because they couldn't register the car to us with Ford we'd be SOL if anything were to happen to the car. We wouldn't be able to use Ford roadside assistance, which we paid for, and no Ford dealer would work on the car for us.

The dealer is supposedly calling us back in an hour, at which point we'll ask about when the warranty would start if we give the car back to them, who's insuring the car while it's on their lot, and whether we'll be making payments on our loan during the time we can't drive the car.
 

ToadStool

Banned
Banned
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
68
Reaction score
105
Location
PNW
Vehicles
Ford Mach E GT
Country flag
Update: The dealer called us this morning and said they don't have an EV loaner. They have a Ford Escape, which gets 26 miles per gallon, that we can borrow. We asked if they could compensate us for gas and they're looking into it. The person we spoke to said he'd talk to the dealership's concierge department.

The dealer also said the manufacturer wants the car back ASAP (we're going out of town tomorrow) and that because they couldn't register the car to us with Ford we'd be SOL if anything were to happen to the car. We wouldn't be able to use Ford roadside assistance, which we paid for, and no Ford dealer would work on the car for us.

The dealer is supposedly calling us back in an hour, at which point we'll ask about when the warranty would start if we give the car back to them, who's insuring the car while it's on their lot, and whether we'll be making payments on our loan during the time we can't drive the car.
Well, they don't seem very apologetic. Again, I'd suggest part of this compromise has to include a written guarantee that the Mach E is yours when fixed and you want the $3k markup removed from the deal.

If they're not playing ball, then tell them you're in a rush for your trip and your Mach E will remain safely in your garage until you return and you'll call them upon your return. They won't want to hear this. If it's not going your way, get their GM on the phone. You're in charge here to some degree. Especially if they know you're a lawyer.

Who cares if the mfg'er wants it back ASAP? They don't have a fix until August. They just want to avoid any potential fines and further hassles.

Stick to your guns and they should cave. Should. After all, you're just being reasonable. :)
 
Last edited:

Lord Polymath

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2021
Threads
9
Messages
706
Reaction score
717
Location
Arkansas
Vehicles
2021 Sienna, '22 Mach-E Premium ER AWD (PWRPONY)
Occupation
Computer nerd
Country flag
The dealer also said the manufacturer wants the car back ASAP (we're going out of town tomorrow) and that because they couldn't register the car to us with Ford we'd be SOL if anything were to happen to the car. We wouldn't be able to use Ford roadside assistance, which we paid for, and no Ford dealer would work on the car for us.
Sounds like a threat to me.
 
OP
OP

dracisk

Member
First Name
Kim
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Threads
4
Messages
22
Reaction score
43
Location
Silver Spring, MD
Vehicles
2022 Ford Mach-E Select AWD
Occupation
lawyer
Country flag
They called again and they're bringing us a pre-owned 2021 Mach-E (I think they said a premium but my husband thinks they said select) for us to borrow until ours is ready. So apparently they CAN use any car on the lot as a loaner. Basically we're in about the same position as if we'd bought our car on Saturday rather than Tuesday.

Sounds like a threat to me.
I didn't take that as a threat. They said they couldn't register the car with Ford as sold to us because of the recall, which others on the forum have also said would be an issue. If we contacted Ford about an issue with the car they wouldn't know who we were. They also said the warranty doesn't start running until they register the car as sold to us and that will be after the car is fixed.
 

Mach1E

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2021
Threads
76
Messages
7,719
Reaction score
9,602
Location
Florida
Vehicles
Mach 1, Chevy SS-sold, GTPE delivered oct 2021
Country flag
Sounds like a threat to me.
Seems less of a threat and more like them just explaining the reality of the situation.

The situation sucks. But keep in mind, itā€™s not the dealerā€™s fault any more than itā€™s the OPs.

This is Ford doing it. If the dealer comes out of their own pocket to help the OP, itā€™s them being nice. Hopefully Ford will step up though and reimburse them or something for these unique situations.

Either way, keeping a car and driving one that canā€™t be registered or serviced doesnā€™t seem like an option.
 

GABAR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
96
Reaction score
87
Location
GA
Vehicles
Bronco
Country flag
The Dealership did the wrong thing and if they are a reputable Dealer, they should/will make it right.

Now while you are correct in many of your assumptions, you seem to exhibit a sense of anger (with the cap locks thing) suggesting that this is a fantasy in the past to make things right. I am not sure whom you are directing your anger to?

Now if the person did not take delivery of said vehicle, that would be a whole different story. But because they (the Dealership) sold it under false pretenses, the only way IMO to cover their butt would be to bend over backwards to make it right.

The Dealership did not ask for it back to cover their butt, they asked for it back because that is the law/rule. They in effect broke the law/rule when they sold it.

If they want to cover their butt, they best do everything they can to make the customer happy so as to not have this blow up in their face. I am guessing the Dealership would want this hushed and nothing spoken on this to Ford and pretend nothing happened wrong on their end.

That (in the real world) is how things are usually handled. ;)
No anger at all just a highlight of a specific thing that was mentioned by you and others.
 

txaggies07

Well-Known Member
First Name
Aaron
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
415
Reaction score
595
Location
Houston, TX
Vehicles
2021 MachE FE Rapid Red
Occupation
Engineer
Country flag
They called again and they're bringing us a pre-owned 2021 Mach-E (I think they said a premium but my husband thinks they said select) for us to borrow until ours is ready. So apparently they CAN use any car on the lot as a loaner. Basically we're in about the same position as if we'd bought our car on Saturday rather than Tuesday.



I didn't take that as a threat. They said they couldn't register the car with Ford as sold to us because of the recall, which others on the forum have also said would be an issue. If we contacted Ford about an issue with the car they wouldn't know who we were. They also said the warranty doesn't start running until they register the car as sold to us and that will be after the car is fixed.
Seems like it will work out ok for you. You can take all these trips without putting the miles on your car. You will have virtually the same cost for your trip since no gas. Hopefully there is no issue with standard vs extended range for your road trip.

This all still sucks but outside of financial compensation it seems like the resolution is the least bad option.
Sponsored

 
 




Top