I Think I’ve Figured Out PaaK

Jimrpa

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I think I might have figured out Phone as a Key. If I’m right, the secret is to go SLOWLY. I found that if I just quickly walk up to the car and immediately hit the door button, more often than not, the door will ignore me on the first and even second tries. But, if I take my time and don’t hit the button right away, the door opens on the first try. Similarly, if I try to start as soon as I hop on, I’ll usually get the dreaded “No key detected” and May end up having to use the backup password. But, if I take a few moments to put the phone in the charger, fasten my seatbelt, etc, then start the car, it starts right away.
Here’s my theory: when you use PaaK, not only is there some kind of handshake between your phone and the car, there’s also a handshake between your phone and the “Ford mothership” and your car and the “Ford mothership”. Until all parties have talked to each other, authenticated themselves to each other and to the “Ford mothership”, and the “Ford mothership” has told both car and phone they can trust each other this one time for this one session, nothing is going to happen. If I’m correct, then there’s an interesting question: what happens if the “Ford mothership” isn’t available, or you go out of an area with cell service, or to a region with poor cell service? Say you go on a drive to Death Valley? 😀





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SnBGC

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According to my testing.....
The phone must be connected to the internet via cell or wifi in order for PaaK to work.

I don't use PaaK. I get in and out of my car way too many times in a day to stand there and wait until it does it's thing. The fob has been working well for me and been rock solid so far.
 

RonTCat

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I think I might have figured out Phone as a Key. If I’m right, the secret is to go SLOWLY. I found that if I just quickly walk up to the car and immediately hit the door button, more often than not, the door will ignore me on the first and even second tries. But, if I take my time and don’t hit the button right away, the door opens on the first try. Similarly, if I try to start as soon as I hop on, I’ll usually get the dreaded “No key detected” and May end up having to use the backup password. But, if I take a few moments to put the phone in the charger, fasten my seatbelt, etc, then start the car, it starts right away.
Here’s my theory: when you use PaaK, not only is there some kind of handshake between your phone and the car, there’s also a handshake between your phone and the “Ford mothership” and your car and the “Ford mothership”. Until all parties have talked to each other, authenticated themselves to each other and to the “Ford mothership”, and the “Ford mothership” has told both car and phone they can trust each other this one time for this one session, nothing is going to happen. If I’m correct, then there’s an interesting question: what happens if the “Ford mothership” isn’t available, or you go out of an area with cell service, or to a region with poor cell service? Say you go on a drive to Death Valley? 😀
I think some of the other experts will chime in, but... Paak uses Bluetooth. Bluetooth takes about 5 to 10 seconds to "handshake" and establish communication. So if you approach your vehicle, and the phone connects to the car 5-10 seconds before you get there, PaaK will work well. Fast walkers will have problems, lol.

Some on here have mentioned NFC (Near Field Comm) as an alternate. This is basically an RFID system, at about 14mHz. Good for "swipe to pay" systems. Pros of NFC are low power and fast (<1 sec) handshake, it is a simple protocol and it's robust, i.e. it works nearly 100% of the time. Cons are range is usually less than 6 inches. Bluetooth has about 10x the data rate as NFC, but for stuff like unlocking a door, not much data is passed, so it doesn't matter. I think it is inevitable you will see some sort of NFC on Ford BEVs in the future.
 

ChasingCoral

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If I’m correct, then there’s an interesting question: what happens if the “Ford mothership” isn’t available, or you go out of an area with cell service, or to a region with poor cell service? Say you go on a drive to Death Valley? 😀
Been there, tested that. You’re right. Be ready to use your backup codes.

While I wasn’t in Death Valley, there’s no cell signal in Everglades National Park. See my post on PaaK and The Everglades Incident
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/my-travels-with-marlin-gb-fe-delivered.3298/post-127060
 

BMT1071

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I think some of the other experts will chime in, but... Paak uses Bluetooth. Bluetooth takes about 5 to 10 seconds to "handshake" and establish communication. So if you approach your vehicle, and the phone connects to the car 5-10 seconds before you get there, PaaK will work well. Fast walkers will have problems, lol.

Some on here have mentioned NFC (Near Field Comm) as an alternate. This is basically an RFID system, at about 14mHz. Good for "swipe to pay" systems. Pros of NFC are low power and fast (<1 sec) handshake, it is a simple protocol and it's robust, i.e. it works nearly 100% of the time. Cons are range is usually less than 6 inches. Bluetooth has about 10x the data rate as NFC, but for stuff like unlocking a door, not much data is passed, so it doesn't matter. I think it is inevitable you will see some sort of NFC on Ford BEVs in the future.
I sure hope we never see NFC used. That would guarantee that you'd have to take your phone out to get in.
 

Murse-In-Airy

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So walking fast is my problem. And wanting to do things NOW. Got it. Don’t think I can change that though. I’ll just stick to my trusty fob. Plus I don’t like that the car unlocks every time I go to the garage with my phone in my pocket. My beer fridge is in my garage. My tools are in my garage. The freezer is in my garage. The trash bins are in my garage. I feel obligated to leave my phone in the house continuously, just so I don’t wake the car up and then have it honk to say goodbye when I leave. I’ll just grab my key fob off the hook by the door when I actually want to use the car. Don’t need my car reporting to the mothership how many beer I’ve had this week.
 

RonTCat

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So walking fast is my problem. And wanting to do things NOW. Got it. Don’t think I can change that though. I’ll just stick to my trusty fob. Plus I don’t like that the car unlocks every time I go to the garage with my phone in my pocket. My beer fridge is in my garage. My tools are in my garage. The freezer is in my garage. The trash bins are in my garage. I feel obligated to leave my phone in the house continuously, just so I don’t wake the car up and then have it honk to say goodbye when I leave. I’ll just grab my key fob off the hook by the door when I actually want to use the car. Don’t need my car reporting to the mothership how many beer I’ve had this week.
But your car knows when you go to the beer store... lol.
 

kdryden99

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Ok question is, if I want to precondition the car every morning is it better to use PAAK and pre start the car, or program the preconditioning. The reason I am asking is that I am at the point where I dont think I want to bother with PAAK.
 

MurphyDog

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So if you have some creeper following you in a parking lot back to your car, good luck getting in and locking the doors behind you quickly. Then hope you sure don't have to type in your backup code to be able to drive away.

I have disabled paak as it seems like a huge step backwards in the usability of a modern car.
 

Murse-In-Airy

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Ok question is, if I want to precondition the car every morning is it better to use PAAK and pre start the car, or program the preconditioning. The reason I am asking is that I am at the point where I dont think I want to bother with PAAK.
You can remote start from the app even without PAAK set up. Just like I can start my F150 from the app.
 

kdryden99

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You can remote start from the app even without PAAK set up. Just like I can start my F150 from the app.
Cool so in reality most functions are available without paak except for opening the door
 
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Murse-In-Airy

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Cool so in reality most functions ate available without pack except for opening the door
Here is what I can do from FordPass without PAAK set up:
B6722028-DDE4-47D1-8D6A-BF92E88BD567.jpeg

25FD34BE-3F02-4654-A000-88BE61E18520.jpeg

the only I can’t do is drive away without my fob. Edit: or unroll the windows remotely. Or open the tailgate remotely.
 

shutterbug

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I have disabled paak as it seems like a huge step backwards in the usability of a modern car.
Don't know about that, but it's definitely a solution in search of a problem. I was just thinking, that if Ford distributed 2 fobs, would anyone say: damn it, I wish I could use my phone as a key?

Whatever effort went into writing all the code for PAAK would have been better spent improving FordPass app.
 

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