Industry gut punch -- The Tesla price drop maintains insane margins

[Hammered]

Munro sets the record straight -- Tesla's margins are still above 30% post price cut due to innovations and efficiencies in manufacturing. These numbers are really bad for the industry as whole as I see no viable path for competition, particularly in pricing. While he praises ford's efforts and trajectory (likely finally listening to him, just decades late -- aka, they're a client), the numbers just don't lie. Ford EV prices have jumped considerably YOY, and is still struggling to profit as they transition. Having to sell 3 vehicles to make the profit tesla does on 1, while being higher priced, well that's not a winning strategy. Combined with other upgrades / options tesla offers, their average per-unit 'profit' is as high as 40%. Contrast that to Ford that's struggling to make less than 10% per EV. Those numbers are neither competitive, nor sustainable. As this plays out for another 5 years, I'm afraid the catfish cars are going to be even more ubiquitous and the competition in receivership.

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[Ride_the_lightning]

Munro’s opinions are not fact. Can you link to some audited financials for both Ford and Tesla supporting your claims about gross margin for either company? Also, gross margin is only one part of the puzzle. You can’t ignore Fords ICE revenue when analyzing whether they can scale their EV business. Ford doesn’t just sell EVs. Tesla does.

 

[Logal727]

Yeah but who wants to drive an electric econo-shitbox? which is what Tesla will be in 5 years

 

[Logal727]

Munro’s opinions are not fact. Can you link to some audited financials for both Ford and Tesla supporting your claims about gross margin for either company? Also, gross margin is only one part of the puzzle. You can’t ignore Fords ICE revenue when analyzing whether they can scale their EV business. Ford doesn’t just sell EVs. Tesla does.

Exactly. It's fact that Ford is using Ford Blue to pay for Model E division. F-150 is insanely profitable. They'll be fine.

 

[Hammered]

Munro’s opinions are not fact. Can you link to some audited financials for both Ford and Tesla supporting your claims about gross margin for either company? Also, gross margin is only one part of the puzzle. You can’t ignore Fords ICE revenue when analyzing whether they can scale their EV business. Ford doesn’t just sell EVs. Tesla does.

It takes no effort to say "that's not fact", when in-fact he couldn't be any more involved. Low effort response. My guess is you've not even read a part of one of the repots. Go buy a section and debunk it. I've bought portions of reports and found nothing but the straight dope so to speak.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

It takes no effort to say "that's not fact", when in-fact he couldn't be any more involved. Low effort response. My guess is you've not even read a part of one of the repots. Go buy a section and debunk it. I've bought portions of reports and found nothing but the straight dope so to speak.

I’ve watched plenty of Munro. He’s a YouTuber at this point, not much more. You are the one that posted this stuff and made claims about margin, while supporting your claims with a YouTuber that has a pretty obvious hard on for Tesla.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Munro sets the record straight -- Tesla's margins are still above 30% post price cut due to innovations and efficiencies in manufacturing. These numbers are really bad for the industry as whole as I see no viable path for competition, particularly in pricing. While he praises ford's efforts and trajectory (likely finally listening to him, just decades late -- aka, they're a client), the numbers just don't lie. Ford EV prices have jumped considerably YOY, and is still struggling to profit as they transition. Having to sell 3 vehicles to make the profit tesla does on 1, while being higher priced, well that's not a winning strategy. Combined with other upgrades / options tesla offers, their average per-unit 'profit' is as high as 40%. Contrast that to Ford that's struggling to make less than 10% per EV. Those numbers are neither competitive, nor sustainable. As this plays out for another 5 years, I'm afraid the catfish cars are going to be even more ubiquitous and the competition in receivership.

Give me an f-ing break. Pure propaganda and click bait b.s. Competition in receivership? Projection much? Maybe Rivian or Fisker but not the legacy makers.

Btw, Tesla doesn’t have any magic manufacturing processes.

 

[Hammered]

I’ve watched plenty of Munro. He’s a YouTuber at this point, not much more. You are the one that posted this stuff and made claims about margin, while supporting your claims with a YouTuber that has a pretty obvious hard on for Tesla.

It's without argument they've branched into social media, just as ford has done. Is ford just a 'youtuber'? I'm not basing my opinion of his words on what he's done on YT. I've used their services as many have. If you've got data to compare, by all means do share, but to claim that your 'not liking him' makes him wrong, well that's just wishful thinking at best.

 

[Jimrpa]

It takes no effort to say "that's not fact", when in-fact he couldn't be any more involved. Low effort response. My guess is you've not even read a part of one of the repots. Go buy a section and debunk it. I've bought portions of reports and found nothing but the straight dope so to speak.

Are there any publicly available, audited financials from Tesla and/or Ford from which profitability could be reasonably derived? Purchasing expensive proprietary reports from consultants is not a reasonable option for most casual automotive enthusiasts.

 

[Hammered]

Give me an f-ing break. Pure propaganda and click bait b.s. Competition in receivership? Projection much? Maybe Rivian or Fisker but not the legacy makers.

Btw, Tesla doesn’t have any magic manufacturing processes.

Some have short memories, the rest of us remember quite clearly not only the auto bailouts, but the outright restructuring of GM post bankruptcy. It's naive to believe it won't occur again, especially with the chinese coming.

 

[ArthurDOB]

Munro’s opinions are not fact. Can you link to some audited financials for both Ford and Tesla supporting your claims about gross margin for either company? Also, gross margin is only one part of the puzzle. You can’t ignore Fords ICE revenue when analyzing whether they can scale their EV business. Ford doesn’t just sell EVs. Tesla does.

Hear, hear. What is also not mentioned is the fact that Tesla shareholders (already suing Musk for other share-related issues) are furious at the price drop because of the negative impact it has on profitability and by extension, their share prices.

It seems that "Hammered" and quite a few others who appear to have transactional relationships with the MME are thinking only of their tax rebate qualifications and seem to think everyone else feels the way they do. They couldn't be more wrong.

Teslas have hardly changed since their introduction and I believe they will soon be falling behind other manufacturers in terms of quality and design, if they haven't already. Their advantages in software will be quickly made up, too, as the old car-makers iron out the bugs in theirs. Can Tesla company keep up over the long-term? That remains to be seen. Part of the reason I even looked at the MME is because I was waiting for one of the Big Boys to start making decent EVs in earnest. I know they are not going anywhere. I'll take the MME over all other options any day of the week, rebate or not.

 

[Hammered]

Hear, hear. What is also not mentioned is the fact that Tesla shareholders (already suing Musk for other share-related issues) are furious at the price drop because of the negative impact it has on profitability and by extension, their share prices.

It seems that "Hammered" and quite a few others who appear to have transactional relationships with the MME are thinking only of their tax rebate qualifications and seem to think everyone else feels the way they do. They couldn't be more wrong.

Teslas have hardly changed since their introduction and I believe they will soon be falling behind other manufacturers in terms of quality and design, if they haven't already. Their advantages in software will be quickly made up, too, as the old car-makers iron out the bugs in theirs. Can Tesla company keep up over the long-term? That remains to be seen. Part of the reason I even looked at the MME is because I was waiting for on of the Big Boys to start making decent EVs in earnest. I know they are not going anywhere. I'll take the MME over all other options any day of the week, rebate or not.

I'm a 1 driver household with 3 Fords, and the tax rebate wasn't a consideration for my purchasing as I wouldn't qualify. I'm likely buying a 4th here in a few months. I can both enjoy and like my Ford products, while also seeing the writing on the wall.

 

[ArthurDOB]

I'm a 1 driver household with 3 Fords, and the tax rebate wasn't a consideration for my purchasing as I wouldn't qualify. I'm likely buying a 4th here in a few months. I can both enjoy and like my Ford products, while also seeing the writing on the wall.

OK, then. Coulda fooled me.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Some have short memories, the rest of us remember quite clearly not only the auto bailouts, but the outright restructuring of GM post bankruptcy. It's naive to believe it won't occur again, especially with the chinese coming.

The bailouts from when? 2008 Great Recession? Or what about the Chrysler Corp. bailout in the early ‘80s? You remember that one? No company is 100% safe forever, but, if you look at what the legacy makers are doing re: massive battery facilities in order to reign in runaway costs and think they’re just sitting idly by then you’re deluded. And that’s just on the EV side, they still have ICE vehicles with good margins too.

Meanwhile, Tesla claims monster margins on the back of the now $15,000 FSD option sales that only beta users have. That doesn’t even work properly. 5 years after Elon told us it would.

 

[SuperRob]

It took Tesla almost a decade to become profitable. Yes, they're there now, but in fairness, Tesla had no real competitors and insane demand until the past couple of years. The question is that they remain as profitable with legit competitors and waning demand?

There's a reason why their stock is tanking. Investors see the writing on the wall.

Also, what Tesla DOES with that profit matters. All that money, and they still can't get Cybertruck or Roadster out the door. TeslaBot was underwhelming. Their current design language is aging. What is Tesla's future?

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