Insight into why the Mach-E battery charge strategy is so conservative

[pt19713]

Not sure if they use LGChem at all, they are tied in with Panasonic.

As for charging... ?
- They likely have better data on where that fine line of a battery fire is, based on experience
- Hope you don't look at the battery warranty too closely
- Won't recall for battery non-compliance to gov standards unless absolutely forced to with a government lawsuit
- Something else, maybe really good cathode/anode design

I guess in the end, their risk tolerance is higher.

Also, the water cooling system isn't talked about often. Certain vehicles are limited, such as the Leaf, due to the lack of battery cooling. The battery management system is the heart of any EV and there are a lot of things going on in the background that users will never see.

On the 3 and Y, the Tesla water cooled system pushes through 280% more coolant through the battery pack while the car is supercharging.

Sponsored

 

[Woeo]

It only matters in those cases where you need 100% to get somewhere. With the current density of DCFC stations, there are lots of those cases across the US.

Personally, I'm fine with the current peak and taper. It optimizes really fast charging for zap-and-dash stops and still charges to 80% at a reasonable rate. I'm not surprised to find a drop above 80% but I am surprised it drops to L2 charging rates. That seems too severe.

Wish I could like this twice.

 

[Woeo]

This may be an unpopular opinion with some of you, but I am not concerned about the "cliff" at 80% when you are DCFC. I have watched enough videos by @OutofSpecKyle and others that I am fine with the speed slowing down a good bit at 80%.

If you actual watched @OutofSpecKyle video's you would know that there are many examples where he has DCFC charged above 80% even when using the "Supercharger" network.

 

[Woeo]

Boy. That is a big ask. You can fill up a stadium with a person in every seat and do so in an orderly fashion which will be better for the facility as well as the fans. Or you can just open the doors and let them fill in Black Friday style. Heck, might as well open the roof and let people jump in through the opening.

You will fill the building pretty quick. Expect some damage to your building and some people to die but it will be full none the less. ?

You can line everyone up single file, use one Stadium Gate, and still have people entering when the game is over....guaranteeing fewer ticket sales next go round.

Or, you can manage the number of fans intelligently so that everyone gets in but no one gets trampled in the process. The building isn't damaged. Lots of concessions are sold. Everyone wants to come back.

 

[jhalkias]

If you actual watched @OutofSpecKyle video's you would know that there are many examples where he has DCFC charged above 80% even when using the "Supercharger" network.

I HAVE watched them, and true he does DCFC sometimes up to 100%.

Also true, there is a taper (even on Teslas) somewhere between 70-90% - maybe not the cliff people are seeing with the Mach E, but a definite taper.

He also says many, many, times if you watch his videos that there is no need to always charge to 100% at DCFC. Get what you need in the fastest time to get you to the next DCFC to charger hop and it is way more effective than charging to 100% at every stop.

 

[SteelMach]

Also, the water cooling system isn't talked about often. Certain vehicles are limited, such as the Leaf, due to the lack of battery cooling. The battery management system is the heart of any EV and there are a lot of things going on in the background that users will never see.

On the 3 and Y, the Tesla water cooled system pushes through 280% more refrigerant through the battery pack while the car is supercharging.

No Tesla uses direct refrigerant cooling of the battery.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I HAVE watched them, and true he does DCFC sometimes up to 100%.

Also true, there is a taper (even on Teslas) somewhere between 70-90% - maybe not the cliff people are seeing with the Mach E, but a definite taper.

He also says many, many, times if you watch his videos that there is no need to always charge to 100% at DCFC. Get what you need in the fastest time to get you to the next DCFC to charger hop and it is way more effective than charging to 100% at every stop.

I'd really like to see 20kW (or even 15) after 80% instead of 7-10.

 

[timbop]

I would never charge to 100% at home.

No, only do it on the road at a DC fast charger where you can do more damage...

 

[Billyk24]

Until battery and battery charging technologies make a few leaps, we’re all just going to need to practice a wee bit of patience.

like waiting longer before obtaining an EV. Solid State batteries can not arrive too soon.

 

[dbsb3233]

Of course I don't expect to go to 100% at each DCFC stop, but there will be times where it will be required in order to go beyond 80% to make the next charger - especially in winter.

For some people, yes, that could be true. In which case pretty much any BEV is going to be a bad fit if chargers are spaced that far out. Most BEVs don't even have the range to do it at all. Yes, that 80%-100% DCFC charge rate is especially slow (at present) in the MME. Hopefully they'll be able to boost it some as they collect enough user data to show that the batteries are holding up well enough.

BEVs definitely have their limitations, and are often a bad fit for people that have to drive 150+ miles in a day between DCFC chargers. That's just the way it is. ICE or PHEV is much better for that.

 

[SteelMach]

No, only do it on the road at a DC fast charger where you can do more damage...

More like where it's necessary on occasion.

 

[SteelMach]

BEVs definitely have their limitations

Disagree.

 

[dbsb3233]

Disagree.

Really? You don't think not being able to refuel in 3 minutes is a limitation?

You don't think not being able to refuel within a few miles of just about anywhere in the country (like ICE and PHEV can) is a limitation?

You don't think not having 400 miles or range between refuels (like most ICE and PHEV can do) is a limitation?

Of course they have their limitations. But they also have their advantages, like being able to easily and cheaply charge at home overnight in your own garage. BEVs are better for some purposes, and worse for others.

 

[jeffdawgfan]

I would never charge to 100% at home.

Charging at home on a level two or level one charger to 100% is not the culprit for damaging or shortening the life of your battery severely. People doing DCFC to 80% three or four times a week are degrading their battery much more than someone who charges to 100% every night on a level two charger. I charge our 2019 Leaf to 100% every other night at home. We have had the vehicle going on two years and our average range has increase from about 220 miles to around 248 miles now as estimated by the car. I would be willing to bet that less than 10% of the people buying a MME now will still have that vehicle when the battery warranty expires. Newer and greater things will come out and as early adopters most of us will be moving on to the next generation.

 

[ClaudeMach-E]

I would never charge to 100% at home.

Unless preparing for a road trip

Sponsored