SteelMach

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Really? You don't think not being able to refuel in 3 minutes is a limitation?

You don't think not being able to refuel within a few miles of just about anywhere in the country (like ICE and PHEV can) is a limitation?

You don't think not having 400 miles or range between refuels (like most ICE and PHEV can do) is a limitation?

Of course they have their limitations. But they also have their advantages, like being able to easily and cheaply charge at home overnight in your own garage. BEVs are better for some purposes, and worse for others.
No, I do not.
 

SteelMach

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Charging at home on a level two or level one charger to 100% is not the culprit for damaging or shortening the life of your battery severely. People doing DCFC to 80% three or four times a week are degrading their battery much more than someone who charges to 100% every night on a level two charger. I charge our 2019 Leaf to 100% every other night at home. We have had the vehicle going on two years and our average range has increase from about 220 miles to around 248 miles now as estimated by the car. I would be willing to bet that less than 10% of the people buying a MME now will still have that vehicle when the battery warranty expires. Newer and greater things will come out and as early adopters most of us will be moving on to the next generation.
I would never go to 100% unless at a DC Fast Charger on a road trip. 80% is by far enough for normal use for me.
 

machefan

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The battery debacle goes on, every EV has one.

The facts as I know it are the following:

Don't charge the MME using DCFC on a regular basis, and it slows way down after 80%, so plan on milage based on 80% and not 100% when traveling. Basically if you are traveling on long trips it makes it near impossible to get the full range unless you are taking really long breaks.

Daily top off to 90% is recommended but anything below that is fine, just going to give you less range.

Getting the maximum range is during ideal temperature ranges for the batteries.

Battery has a buffer for one reason or another, might as some are saying is to protect the battery. I was hoping it would keep the battery always at full capacity when things drop off.

I believe Ford is working on the software for DCDC for when using DCFC in relation to communication and charge speed. Things will improve and speeds will increase.

Tesla might have a leg up here, it is what it is.
 


malba2366

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The much more interesting question would be: How come the Audi e-tron is able to charge faster than the Tesla or the Mach-E when using the same LG Chem cells as the Mach-E.

Able and willing are apparently not the same thing.
Could be because E-tron/Taycan use 800V internal charging system so less current (amps) is required to deliver the same number of kilowatts. If you look at the id.3 which uses the same batteries, but a 400v internal system the charge curve looks a lot like the Mach E.
 

DBC

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Could be because E-tron/Taycan use 800V internal charging system so less current (amps) is required to deliver the same number of kilowatts. If you look at the id.3 which uses the same batteries, but a 400v internal system the charge curve looks a lot like the Mach E.
That can't be it. The Taycan charges at 800v but the e-tron charges at 400v. You can see that from the 150 kW charging limit for the e-tron (350A X 400v). So 400v just like the Mach-E.

Audi says it's because of its more advanced thermal management system. No idea if that is the only reason or not.
 

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Audi says it's because of its more advanced thermal management system. No idea if that is the only reason or not.
Or it could be that they are gambling that they're smarter than LG chem the way Hyundai did.
 

Njia

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If this doesn't spur Ford to reconsider its in-house battery manufacturing plans, I don't know what will. There are good reasons why GM, Toyota, et al, are pursuing their own R&D programs and production capacity.
 

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If this doesn't spur Ford to reconsider its in-house battery manufacturing plans, I don't know what will. There are good reasons why GM, Toyota, et al, are pursuing their own R&D programs and production capacity.
GM uses LG Chem cells. The upcoming Ultium cells will be made by LG Chem though the chemistry may have involved some collaboration. Other than Toyota I'm not sure any major manufacturer is trying to do batteries on their own.
 

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GM uses LG Chem cells. The upcoming Ultium cells will be made by LG Chem though the chemistry may have involved some collaboration. Other than Toyota I'm not sure any major manufacturer is trying to do batteries on their own.
Agreed, but Ultium is a GM-proprietary battery design, and the manufacturing is also captive to GM through the JV with LG Chem. That still puts GM at an advantage over rivals that keep supply at arm's length.
 

ChasingCoral

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Agreed, but Ultium is a GM-proprietary battery design, and the manufacturing is also captive to GM through the JV with LG Chem. That still puts GM at an advantage over rivals that keep supply at arm's length.
It can also be a hindrance, trapping GM into continuing to use it's in house technology when others have pivoted to something newer and better. Until auto companies change their mentality, they are unlikely to be as nimble as battery companies.
 
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RonTCat

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It can also be a hindrance, trapping GM into continuing to use it's in house technology when others have pivoted to something newer and better. Until auto companies change their mentality, they are unlikely to be as nimble as battery companies.
Agree... if you are going to make cells/batteries, you have to be "all in" like Tesla, have R&D, the whole game. If not, you are going to have an obsolete battery factory real fast.
 

prdude

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Also, the water cooling system isn't talked about often. Certain vehicles are limited, such as the Leaf, due to the lack of battery cooling. The battery management system is the heart of any EV and there are a lot of things going on in the background that users will never see.

On the 3 and Y, the Tesla water cooled system pushes through 280% more refrigerant through the battery pack while the car is supercharging.
The Teslas are pushing coolant through the batteries not refrigerant. The coolant then rejects the heat to the refrigerant through a heat exchanger. The MME battery cooling system is similar (ignoring the differences that come with the heat pump system in the Tesla).
 

prdude

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It can also be a hindrance, trapping GM into continuing to use it's in house technology when others have pivoted to something newer and better. Until auto companies change their mentality, they are unlikely to be as nimble as battery companies.
Yep, just think of the all the capital GM is investing in the manufacturing of these Ultium batteries. What happens when the technology pivots?
Sponsored

 
 




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