Insight into why the Mach-E battery charge strategy is so conservative

[dbsb3233]

In-house doesn't necessarily mean better or problem-free though. In fact, one could argue that the battery companies are better experts at it than the auto companies.

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[Dmcerm]

That is such a vivid analogy!

@snBthat really was a great analogy and made me laugh out loud... "Black Friday Style." LOL. Great!

 

[Njia]

It can also be a hindrance, trapping GM into continuing to use it's in house technology when others have pivoted to something newer and better. Until auto companies change their mentality, they are unlikely to be as nimble as battery companies.

I don't disagree that GM's strategy carries its own risks. If the underlying battery architecture can support different technologies and chemistry, that might enable them to adapt.

 

[silverelan]

I don't disagree that GM's strategy carries its own risks. If the underlying battery architecture can support different technologies and chemistry, that might enable them to adapt.

I'm just skeptical of GM's ability to enable a decently quick charging EV when their best & brightest engineers put out a fully refreshed 2022 Bolt EV that maxes out at 55kW.

 

[DBC]

Agree... if you are going to make cells/batteries, you have to be "all in" like Tesla, have R&D, the whole game. If not, you are going to have an obsolete battery factory real fast.

I think GM has the best EV tech. They have a platform like VW, but, unlike VW, they have a modular battery system which uses a wireless battery management system that can balance the cells down to the group. The batteries can be stacked either vertically or horizontally, allowing for more customization of models.

This is all separate from the actual cell chemistry.

 

[silverelan]

Polestar uses LG Chem and CATL cells. The Polestar 2 is starting to receive OTA improvements to range and DC fast charging speeds. Hopefully Ford's isn't too far behind for the Mach-E.

https://www.slashgear.com/polestar-...-range-charging-and-adds-v2v-safety-25661246/

 

[Njia]

I'm just skeptical of GM's ability to enable a decently quick charging EV when their best & brightest engineers put out a fully refreshed 2022 Bolt EV that maxes out at 55kW.

But they didn't use any new tech (apart from a version of SuperCruise), and a "refresh" is about styling more than underlying architectural components. That tells me that GM leadership wanted to accomplish a few things: 1) don't spend a lot of money; 2) make it less homely; 3) make it (slightly) more affordable. The Bolt is/was a compliance vehicle at heart, and it's a Chevy, which is not a premium brand (Corvette, notwithstanding). It would not surprise me if the marketing data strongly suggested that in the minds of target customers (who are not typically Chevy buyers anyway), it's probably a dead end absent a huge investment over a couple of product cycles to change perceptions.

I saw an interesting bit of marketing data that contradicts the above hypothesis to some degree, however: the Bolt is one of GM's biggest conquest vehicles. That justifies adding SuperCruise, subsidizing the L2 home chargers, and lowering the price to keep it just compelling enough while better products are developed and introduced.

 

[malba2366]

I'm just skeptical of GM's ability to enable a decently quick charging EV when their best & brightest engineers put out a fully refreshed 2022 Bolt EV that maxes out at 55kW.

Wait until the Lyriq and Hummer EV come out. Bolt is a low cost vehicle so they had to contain costs as much as possible. Also, he bolt uses GMs older battery technology, not the new Ultium batteries.

 

[RonTCat]

Wait until the Lyriq and Hummer EV come out. Bolt is a low cost vehicle so they had to contain costs as much as possible. Also, he bolt uses GMs older battery technology, not the new Ultium batteries.

Agree, GM will likely set the bar higher than Tesla, at least temporarily.

 

[jhalkias]

I think GM has the best EV tech. They have a platform like VW, but, unlike VW, they have a modular battery system which uses a wireless battery management system that can balance the cells down to the group. The batteries can be stacked either vertically or horizontally, allowing for more customization of models.

This is all separate from the actual cell chemistry.

Maybe . . . but so far the WORST cars. Even the new Bolts are underwhelming, the Hummer EV is like a concept vehicle, and the announced Cadillacs are far from production, and niche luxury vehicles.

 

[JSW]

Yep, just think of the all the capital GM is investing in the manufacturing of these Ultium batteries. What happens when the technology pivots?

I view it differently. JV’s give you the ultimate flexibility. They are extremely capital-efficient.
Partner A (GM) contributes the intellectual property and Partner B (Battery co) uses the IP to manufacture.

If/when Partner A (GM) wants something different, they just move on. Often they generate revenue after moving on by licensing he technology they consider to be last gen.... It's akin to purchasing a call option on batteries in exchange for your technology IP.

 

[dbsb3233]

Maybe . . . but so far the WORST cars. Even the new Bolts are underwhelming, the Hummer EV is like a concept vehicle, and the announced Cadillacs are far from production, and niche luxury vehicles.

Any BEV that can be had for around $30k is going to be underwhelming though. Batteries are still just so expensive. It's gonna be that way until battery prices come down a lot more.

 

[silverelan]

Wait until the Lyriq and Hummer EV come out. Bolt is a low cost vehicle so they had to contain costs as much as possible. Also, he bolt uses GMs older battery technology, not the new Ultium batteries.

Here's the thing, the Bolt EV is a fantastic EV and was otherwise terrifically thought out. Putting aside its polarizing looks (I don't understand why people give it hate) the only real let down was the car's charging speed. GM has twice refused to improve it above 55kW. First was 2020 when they went to a 66kWh battery and now again with the refresh. To their credit, GM did change the charging profile from a stepdown to a curve. As for being a compliance vehicle, I'm not sure the Bolt EV is since we know what one of those looks like: Focus Electric or Mazda MX-30.

The Bolt platform is a dead end budget option now but I do wish GM had given it a bit more attention to improve its lackluster charging speed. I think we all hope Ford does a better job than GM did on their EV at improving the Mach-E's charging ability.

 

[timbop]

As with all things GM, they almost get it right - but misread the critical market shift. A brand new 2022 model with the same DC charging (I'm not going to even refer to it euphemistically as "fast") as their debut 2017 model is just setting them up for failure. Expecting mainstream buyers to accept an hour plus charging stop on the way to grandma's house or while driving to their vacation destination is unrealistic. Even post pandemic people are going to fly less and drive more, and having to stop for an hour for every 2-3 hours of driving is going to push people to buy something else.

 

[jhalkias]

As with all things GM, they almost get it right - but misread the critical market shift. A brand new 2022 model with the same DC charging (I'm not going to even refer to it euphemistically as "fast") as their debut 2017 model is just setting them up for failure. Expecting mainstream buyers to accept an hour plus charging stop on the way to grandma's house or while driving to their vacation destination is unrealistic. Even post pandemic people are going to fly less and drive more, and having to stop for an hour for every 2-3 hours of driving is going to push people to buy something else.

Unfortunately I am guessing most buyers won't do their homework and research UNTIL they are on their way to grandmas and try their first DCFC.

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