ChasingCoral

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As with all things GM, they almost get it right - but misread the critical market shift. A brand new 2022 model with the same DC charging (I'm not going to even refer to it euphemistically as "fast") as their debut 2017 model is just setting them up for failure. Expecting mainstream buyers to accept an hour plus charging stop on the way to grandma's house or while driving to their vacation destination is unrealistic. Even post pandemic people are going to fly less and drive more, and having to stop for an hour for every 2-3 hours of driving is going to push people to buy something else.
Yes. GM had basically said don’t buy this if you plan to travel.
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dbsb3233

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Yes. GM had basically said don’t buy this if you plan to travel.
Which is OK, especially if it means the price is $thousands less as a result.

Consumers need more affordable BEVs in the marketplace. And they don't all have to do everything. Some people only need a daily commuter (perhaps as the 2nd car in the garage). We need a variety of choices for different fits.
 

ChasingCoral

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Which is OK, especially if it means the price is $thousands less as a result.

Consumers need more affordable BEVs in the marketplace. And they don't all have to do everything. Some people only need a daily commuter (perhaps as the 2nd car in the garage). We need a variety of choices for different fits.
Agreed and I'm glad GM and Nissan have affordable economy BEVs out there. At least Nissan was smart enough to up their charging rate to 100kW in the higher-spec Leaf models.
 

SteelMach

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I'm just skeptical of GM's ability to enable a decently quick charging EV when their best & brightest engineers put out a fully refreshed 2022 Bolt EV that maxes out at 55kW.
It's not a "fully refreshed" Bolt as the entire powertrain is carried over from 2021. It's still unchanged 2017 tech, hence the 55 kW.
 
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DBC

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Maybe . . . but so far the WORST cars. Even the new Bolts are underwhelming, the Hummer EV is like a concept vehicle, and the announced Cadillacs are far from production, and niche luxury vehicles.
This strikes me as being uninformed. The Bolt is pretty much a perfect local vehicle. It has plenty of range and the build quality and reliability is rock sold. In essence what you're claiming is the Corolla or Civic of the BEV world is the WORST car.

Is it underwhelming? Depends on what you compare it to. If you're comparing it to the Mach-E then "yes". Then again you can lease the top trim Bolt for under $300/month with $0 down. The Mach-E is more than twice that at $660/month (with $7500 down to account for the tax credit).

And the Bolt has some tech that the twice-as-expensive Mach-E doesn't have. The Mach-E lacks the rear view camera which is really fabulous, and the Mach-E also lacks the regen paddle shifters which are likewise fabulous. With respect to features both have, the regen and regen blended braking is much better on the Bolt, and Ford Pass isn't nearly as useful, complete, or solid as what you get from a similar app with the Bolt.

Just to pile on, Supercruise on the Bolt will be useful on more miles of highway and it's here now as opposed to later this year. And of course the Bolt is a lot more efficient than the Mach-E (hardly surprising given the vehicles are in totally different classes).

Moving on to the Lyriq, whose styling doesn't do much for me, that vehicle which you claim is "far from production" is actually due a year from now, which means the pre-production line is likely already operational. When it comes out, my guess is that it will be the best road trip BEV you can buy given its cargo space, range, and charging capabilities (latter will need to be confirmed).
 


DBC

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Agreed and I'm glad GM and Nissan have affordable economy BEVs out there. At least Nissan was smart enough to up their charging rate to 100kW in the higher-spec Leaf models.
From what we're seeing with MME charge rates, the Bolt and the MME will put on the same number of miles when DC charging for thirty minutes. :p

Honestly I can't see that it matters at the moment. I haven't ever DC charged the Bolt and I doubt I ever will. Would have to be an emergency or something. The Bolt is great for local driving -- compact, nimble, and quick -- but it's not exactly ideal for road trips.

This no doubt will change as prices come down, making BEVs more affordable and appealing to new demographics, such as people living in apartments and condos. Right now BEVs are mostly for people in detached housing, which makes DC charging rates for a local vehicle not very important.
 

malba2366

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I don't understand the GM hate on here. GM actually did a smart thing by investing up front in battery production and a scalable platform...it will allow them to get mainstream vehicles to market much quicker once they can get the battery costs down and amortize some of the development costs of the platform/batteries. The Ultium battery system and EV platform is the most flexible out there in terms of differing battery capacity for a huge range of vehicles. The Bolt is using their older technology, and is a low cost option for those who can't afford a 50-60K vehicle. Ford's EV plan at the moment is much more disjointed - they will have the Mach E, and one other Lincoln vehicle based on this platform, they will use VWs platform for other vehicles and Rivian's platform for one vehicle. Ford will probably do great with the Mach E, and Electric F150 over the next few years but their road ahead will be more difficult than for GM - unless they just adopt the VW platform and use it for future EV development. Also, GM will have a guaranteed battery supply second only to Tesla once their jv with LG comes online late this year or early next year. I am buying a Mach E, but I am rooting for Ford, GM and Tesla to succeed and to return the US auto industry to world leadership.
 

jhalkias

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This strikes me as being uninformed. The Bolt is pretty much a perfect local vehicle. It has plenty of range and the build quality and reliability is rock sold. In essence what you're claiming is the Corolla or Civic of the BEV world is the WORST car.

Is it underwhelming? Depends on what you compare it to. If you're comparing it to the Mach-E then "yes". Then again you can lease the top trim Bolt for under $300/month with $0 down. The Mach-E is more than twice that at $660/month (with $7500 down to account for the tax credit).

And the Bolt has some tech that the twice-as-expensive Mach-E doesn't have. The Mach-E lacks the rear view camera which is really fabulous, and the Mach-E also lacks the regen paddle shifters which are likewise fabulous. With respect to features both have, the regen and regen blended braking is much better on the Bolt, and Ford Pass isn't nearly as useful, complete, or solid as what you get from a similar app with the Bolt.

Just to pile on, Supercruise on the Bolt will be useful on more miles of highway and it's here now as opposed to later this year. And of course the Bolt is a lot more efficient than the Mach-E (hardly surprising given the vehicles are in totally different classes).

Moving on to the Lyriq, whose styling doesn't do much for me, that vehicle which you claim is "far from production" is actually due a year from now, which means the pre-production line is likely already operational. When it comes out, my guess is that it will be the best road trip BEV you can buy given its cargo space, range, and charging capabilities (latter will need to be confirmed).
Well, I know there are several people who have loved their bolts. I also know there are lots of people and lots of reviews about how bad the seats and the interior are and were. I was actually seriously considering a bolt until the Mach E came out, but I will be honest, I did not like the styling, or the feel of the car. I've never actually driven a bolt, but I have been driving the Mach E in 1P mode and found the regen and braking excellent.

Now then, does it have it's place? Absolutely, and I am glad it is there. The more BEV's the better. But even with this refresh, I think GM gave up on the platform and didn't advance it. Perhaps they consider it a dead end - but what will take it's place? Certainly not the Lyriq.

More competition is better in the space. Ford has work to do - no doubt, but my post was more in disappointment that GM did not step up MORE beyond some styling improvements to improve other things in the car.
 

Ixoye

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And the Bolt has some tech that the twice-as-expensive Mach-E doesn't have. The Mach-E lacks the rear view camera which is really fabulous
Ford Mustang Mach-E Insight into why the Mach-E battery charge strategy is so conservative 1614377443266

Ford Mustang Mach-E Insight into why the Mach-E battery charge strategy is so conservative 1614377582223
 

Ixoye

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You don't think not having 400 miles or range between refuels (like most ICE and PHEV can do) is a limitation?
If everyone had a fuel depot at home like we do with electricity then most ICE/PHEV vehicles wouldn't care if it had 400 miles of range. Having an EV and being able to add miles to my EV every night to cover my driving the next day makes the need for a batter size to hold 400 miles less. Now would I rather have an EV that has 400+ mile capacity. Sure, but not at a huge expense. As it is, I have 1EV, 1PHEV and 2 ICE. If/When we leave for a trip over 200 miles I will most likely take my ICE engine. But I take trips like that very rarely, a couple of times a year.
 

hybrid2bev

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Every car will have a rear view camera. Government regulations in the US require it. FMVSS 111, since 2018.
I think they were talking about how the Bolt uses the rear camera as the rear view mirror. It can always be on while driving.
 

ChasingCoral

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I think they were talking about how the Bolt uses the rear camera as the rear view mirror. It can always be on while driving.
There are pros and cons with that system.
 

ChasingCoral

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I don't understand the GM hate on here. GM actually did a smart thing by investing up front in battery production and a scalable platform...it will allow them to get mainstream vehicles to market much quicker once they can get the battery costs down and amortize some of the development costs of the platform/batteries. The Ultium battery system and EV platform is the most flexible out there in terms of differing battery capacity for a huge range of vehicles. The Bolt is using their older technology, and is a low cost option for those who can't afford a 50-60K vehicle. Ford's EV plan at the moment is much more disjointed - they will have the Mach E, and one other Lincoln vehicle based on this platform, they will use VWs platform for other vehicles and Rivian's platform for one vehicle. Ford will probably do great with the Mach E, and Electric F150 over the next few years but their road ahead will be more difficult than for GM - unless they just adopt the VW platform and use it for future EV development. Also, GM will have a guaranteed battery supply second only to Tesla once their jv with LG comes online late this year or early next year. I am buying a Mach E, but I am rooting for Ford, GM and Tesla to succeed and to return the US auto industry to world leadership.
I agree. There's no room for GM hate. GM has done well with the Volt and Bolt. However, they haven't made a serious move beyond that except for a couple of really high-end vehicles and long-term promises. Ford has two BEVs for mass market (Mach E, Transit) and another coming next year (F-150). I think we will see lots of that sort of leap-frogging among companies for the next few years.
 

dbsb3233

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If everyone had a fuel depot at home like we do with electricity then most ICE/PHEV vehicles wouldn't care if it had 400 miles of range. Having an EV and being able to add miles to my EV every night to cover my driving the next day makes the need for a batter size to hold 400 miles less. Now would I rather have an EV that has 400+ mile capacity. Sure, but not at a huge expense. As it is, I have 1EV, 1PHEV and 2 ICE. If/When we leave for a trip over 200 miles I will most likely take my ICE engine. But I take trips like that very rarely, a couple of times a year.
Yes, the context is for road trips. For those only using a BEV as a daily commuter around home, the range limitation is a virtual non-issue.
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