Interesting article on Ford's evolving model of sales

[EELinneman]

Let's keep our fingers crossed regarding this. Sure it makes some more coin for Ford, but the experience many have had with dealers should drive this change.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/h...magining-the-future-of-car-buying-11628682383

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[timbop]

I get that everyone hates dealer shenanigans, but replacing them with a manufacturer's shenanigans isn't a win. Right now Tesla tightly controls service of their cars, and a short search on youtube yields plenty of complaints about Tesla refusing to fix an issue with a car - or service centers being hours away. At least if you find an honest dealer they can advocate for you if Ford doesn't want to cover something, and of course competition with repair shops keeps some level of pricing control.

BEVs require much less service and if the manufacturers take more of the sales pie (and the goodies the dealers try to make extra money on) then many will go out of business. Then you end up with the same problem with Tesla: in smaller communities there will be no local option to get your car fixed, and even if you can they'll be backed up. We've seen a taste of that with the Mach E: between the pandemic and the newness of the car it is taking a lot longer to get issues fixed. Rather than abating over time, cutting out the dealers means the problem will get far worse - permanently.

Everybody wants to pay less, but nobody thinks about the consequences of much worse service.

 

[BMT1071]

I get that everyone hates dealer shenanigans, but replacing them with a manufacturer's shenanigans isn't a win. Right now Tesla tightly controls service of their cars, and a short search on youtube yields plenty of complaints about Tesla refusing to fix an issue with a car - or service centers being hours away. At least if you find an honest dealer they can advocate for you if Ford doesn't want to cover something, and of course competition with repair shops keeps some level of pricing control.

BEVs require much less service and if the manufacturers take more of the sales pie (and the goodies the dealers try to make extra money on) then many will go out of business. Then you end up with the same problem with Tesla: in smaller communities there will be no local option to get your car fixed, and even if you can they'll be backed up. We've seen a taste of that with the Mach E: between the pandemic and the newness of the car it is taking a lot longer to get issues fixed. Rather than abating over time, cutting out the dealers means the problem will get far worse - permanently.

Everybody wants to pay less, but nobody thinks about the consequences of much worse service.

I mostly agree with what you're saying. I don't necessarily agree that people want to pay less per se. It's more like people want to feel like they are paying a fair price. Aside from some outliers, people understand that a dealer is a business looking to make a profit. There is nothing wrong with that. Things start to go sideways because nobody knows what a fair price for a car is, and they always believe that the dealer is trying to screw them. In many cases they are right. There are decent dealers out there though. New car prices need to be fixed like other retail goods. If all dealers are required to sell the car at the same price there won't be any question in the consumer's mind that they are getting a fair deal. Of course that's only one component of a car deal. Still need to get a handle on trade in value, dealer adds, F&I...

 

[Rapid Ed]

Dealers just don't do themselves any favors with their behavior here... buying a car is on par with colonoscopy, and we've all seen/heard/personally experienced getting screwed during service/repairs at a dealer. They wanna save their end of the industry, they need to make themselves worth saving.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

BEVs require much less service and if the manufacturers take more of the sales pie (and the goodies the dealers try to make extra money on) then many will go out of business. Then you end up with the same problem with Tesla: in smaller communities there will be no local option to get your car fixed, and even if you can they'll be backed up. We've seen a taste of that with the Mach E: between the pandemic and the newness of the car it is taking a lot longer to get issues fixed. Rather than abating over time, cutting out the dealers means the problem will get far worse - permanently.

Everybody wants to pay less, but nobody thinks about the consequences of much worse service.

I don't think I could get worse service than I've gotten from dealers.

Everyone defending the dealer model pretends that dealers offer something of value, but in my experience they don't offer any added value. In my town, they charge more than a fair price for the vehicles (their new car markup was $5k minimum on all vehicles well before the chip shortage made that seem reasonable).

They got so bad that people drive several hours away to purchase a new or used vehicle. To counter that, the dealers convinced the city to provide a discount to people who purchase in town. So, now tax payers are paying a portion of the dealers' ADM. Fortunately that discount was too small to make it worth buying in town and it's rarely been exercised.

Dealers are going out of business here and other than the dealers and their apologists, nobody really cares because in capitalism if you don't offer anything of value your business model fails. The only way they've managed to hang on is by consolidating; one dealer (who is based five hours away) has been buying up most of the other dealerships. So, you can't even escape this dealer by going out of town.

Service (including warranty service and recalls) on vehicles is more reliable and cheaper from the independent shops; they have months long wait lists. An appointment at a dealer can be made same-day. But most people still prefer to wait for the independents rather than to go to the dealer.

I expect that in the next two to five years we'll have an independent auto repair shop that specializes in EVs.

 

[JoeDimwit]

I don't think I could get worse service than I've gotten from dealers.

Everyone defending the dealer model pretends that dealers offer something of value, but in my experience they don't offer any added value. In my town, they charge more than a fair price for the vehicles (their new car markup was $5k minimum on all vehicles well before the chip shortage made that seem reasonable).

They got so bad that people drive several hours away to purchase a new or used vehicle. To counter that, the dealers convinced the city to provide a discount to people who purchase in town. So, now tax payers are paying a portion of the dealers' ADM. Fortunately that discount was too small to make it worth buying in town and it's rarely been exercised.

Dealers are going out of business here and other than the dealers and their apologists, nobody really cares because in capitalism if you don't offer anything of value your business model fails. The only way they've managed to hang on is by consolidating; one dealer (who is based five hours away) has been buying up most of the other dealerships. So, you can't even escape this dealer by going out of town.

Service (including warranty service and recalls) on vehicles is more reliable and cheaper from the independent shops; they have months long wait lists. An appointment at a dealer can be made same-day. But most people still prefer to wait for the independents rather than to go to the dealer.

I expect that in the next two to five years we'll have an independent auto repair shop that specializes in EVs.

It could be argued that everyone attacking the dealership model just wants a free lunch too. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

It could be argued that everyone attacking the dealership model just wants a free lunch too. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

I don't think that makes any sense at all. What free lunch? Manufacturers aren't giving these vehicles away, and everyone knows that.

We just want to know what the price is for the options we select, pay that price, and be done. The dealer just gets in the way of that and charges us for the inconvenience they provide.

I happily would have paid another 10% to Ford to avoid having to interact with the dealer.

 

[JoeDimwit]

what's strange to me is that I have purchased multiple vehicles from my salesperson, at the same dealership, and take my vehicles as well as my girlfriends vehicle there for maintenance. I have had several of the issues mentioned in these threads at previous dealerships, but I no longer do business with those dealerships. I like my dealership, and don't want them to go away.

When I picked up the Smurfmobile, I was in the dealership for a total of 90 minutes, and that included the walk around inspection. That doesn't seem excessive to me on a $50,000+purchase.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

what's strange to me is that I have purchased multiple vehicles from my salesperson, at the same dealership, and take my vehicles as well as my girlfriends vehicle there for maintenance. I have had several of the issues mentioned in these threads at previous dealerships, but I no longer do business with those dealerships. I like my dealership, and don't want them to go away.

When I picked up the Smurfmobile, I was in the dealership for a total of 90 minutes, and that included the walk around inspection. That doesn't seem excessive to me on a $50,000+purchase.

My town has one dealership for any given make: One Ford dealer; one Chevy dealer; one Toyota dealer; one Kia dealer... Several of those are owned by the same owner. Almost all the dealers have had ADM for years and years.

We don't have competition. People (who can) drive several hours each way to find a better dealer. The dealers in town lobbied the city to provide a city-paid rebate to residents who purchased in town. So, now not only are the dealers a state-law protected monopoly, the city's tax payers are paying a portion of their ADM.

In the previous city I lived, we had some competition, but I've never left a dealership feeling good about my purchase and I've always recommended against buying from the previous dealer.

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