Is the Mach-E really 7 years behind Tesla?

dbsb3233

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I know on average I have had more business trips where I had to stay at a hotel for a week than times when I was on vacation passing through and only at the hotel one night. Not going to try to say that it's more common to be one night stay, but it is more than a few that are stuck at a location for more than a night for business.
For business stays, yes. But rarely are business stays road trips. Business stays are usually people that flew in, and thus don't have a car with them to charge (and if they do, it's likely a rental car, which are ICE).

I do wonder when we'll start seeing BEV rental cars by major rental companies (not Turo). Since many rentals are just for like 100 miles or so (airport-hotel-airport on a business trip), a single full charge could work well in a rental. Then just let the rental company recharge it after return.
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For business stays, yes. But rarely are business stays road trips. Business stays are usually people that flew in, and thus don't have a car with them to charge (and if they do, it's likely a rental car, which are ICE).
A coworker was recently in Munich. He was (to his surprise, as he was expecting an ICEV) provided with a Tesla Model X via National Car Rental. I may be mistaken, but I do think he needed to stop at a Supercharger location to recharge it during his stay.
 

dbsb3233

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A coworker was recently in Munich. He was (to his surprise, as he was expecting an ICEV) provided with a Tesla Model X via National Car Rental. I may be mistaken, but I do think he needed to stop at a Supercharger location to recharge it during his stay.
Yeah, I've seen mention of some rental car companies in Europe having BEVs. Haven't seen any in the US yet though.

I know the normal paradigm for rental cars is to gas it up before you return it, and that's no big deal since it only takes 3 minutes. But for BEVs they really need to change the paradigm. Makes far more sense for the rental company to recharge it, since it's a far bigger burden for the customer (time-wise) than a gas refuel. Plus the rental company can probably do it on L2 instead of L3 and help preserve the battery longer.
 

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Yeah, I've seen mention of some rental car companies in Europe having BEVs. Haven't seen any in the US yet though.

I know the normal paradigm for rental cars is to gas it up before you return it, and that's no big deal since it only takes 3 minutes. But for BEVs they really need to change the paradigm. Makes far more sense for the rental company to recharge it, since it's a far bigger burden for the customer (time-wise) than a gas refuel. Plus the rental company can probably do it on L2 instead of L3 and help preserve the battery longer.
The problem there, however, is during busy times where cars come in and go back out within an hour or so. They'd have to have a few L3's around for just those times.
 

dbsb3233

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The problem there, however, is during busy times where cars come in and go back out within an hour or so. They'd have to have a few L3's around for just those times.
Yeah, I thought about that too. Either way it's lost time to someone - either the customer, or the rental company.

Most likely the rental fleets will remain mostly ICE so they don't have those lost-time issues during the busiest times. But some BEVs and a mix of L2 and L3 chargers might be prudent too. Or maybe low-end L3 (like 50 kW).

They'll probably use a similar pricing premium for people that don't refuel their vehicle on their own before returning it. But I hope it's a more modest premium for BEVs, since it's significantly more inconvenient for a traveler to refuel a BEV (both time-wise and charger availability). While it's much easier for the rental lot to do it on-site with their own chargers.
 


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They'll probably use a similar pricing premium for people that don't refuel their vehicle on their own before returning it. But I hope it's a more modest premium for BEVs, since it's significantly more inconvenient for a traveler to refuel a BEV (both time-wise and charger availability).
Agreed - they will probably put the onus on the customer to recharge before returning. I would expect the fee to be higher than the typical double price for gas since having to charge it on the parking lot will keep a BEV out of service for potentially much longer than an ICE. Certainly a DCFC will significantly alter the overhead of the site as well.
 

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Agreed - they will probably put the onus on the customer to recharge before returning. I would expect the fee to be higher than the typical double price for gas since having to charge it on the parking lot will keep a BEV out of service for potentially much longer than an ICE. Certainly a DCFC will significantly alter the overhead of the site as well.
On the contrary, I expect the fee to be lower than the typical price for gas since it's a lot easier to have charging on the parking lot than to have a gas pump on the parking lot, or requiring a third person to take the vehicle off site to get fuel.
 

dbsb3233

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On the contrary, I expect the fee to be lower than the typical price for gas since it's a lot easier to have charging on the parking lot than to have a gas pump on the parking lot, or requiring a third person to take the vehicle off site to get fuel.
It is a tricky one, because there's reasons both for and against it. On one hand, time is money for them. And having to put the car out of service for charging for some time is potential lost revenue when they're busy.

But OTOH, when they're not busy, it's a better use of time for the rental company to charge it on their lot rather than the customer having to do it (since it's no longer just a simple 3 minute gas stop). Most customers are willing to refuel their own now because it's quick and easy. But most BEV rental customers aren't going to be nearly as willing to kill 30 minutes doing it. They'll just rent a gas car if they have to do that.

So I tend to think rental lots are going to find most renters won't recharge them. And to get people to choose a BEV rather than an ICE, they're gonna have to accommodate the customer. Which means not applying punitive pricing on refueling like they do now with gas.
 

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A coworker was recently in Munich. He was (to his surprise, as he was expecting an ICEV) provided with a Tesla Model X via National Car Rental. I may be mistaken, but I do think he needed to stop at a Supercharger location to recharge it during his stay.
It would be interesting if you could find out more from your coworker - in particular what the recharging policy was. while still only a small sample size, it's more informative than speculation.
 

dbsb3233

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Another note... many rental companies offer 2 types of fueling options if you choose to have them do it rather than yourself -- prepay a full tank at "normal" gas prices, or just have them refuel on the fly at some outrageous $/gal rate (like $10/gal). As long as they don't try to rape you on the cost, I would think the former option would be what most BEV renters would use.

Something like a flat $15 prepaid recharge fee would be reasonable.
 

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Who gets to decide whether government policy is "smart"? This forum is obviously not the place to debate this, but there are books upon books of government policy that was as dumb as you could possibly imagine. I'd say most existing government policy has unintended consequences that are worse than the problem they originally tried to solve. How about we let you and me decide to buy BEV's and then there will be plenty of other Tom, Dick, and Harry's out there that will be looking to provide service to me and you so that we can get what we want and they can make money for their families. That's what makes this country successful, not some government official forcing you to do what they think is right.
 

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Who gets to decide whether government policy is "smart"? This forum is obviously not the place to debate this, but there are books upon books of government policy that was as dumb as you could possibly imagine. I'd say most existing government policy has unintended consequences that are worse than the problem they originally tried to solve. How about we let you and me decide to buy BEV's and then there will be plenty of other Tom, Dick, and Harry's out there that will be looking to provide service to me and you so that we can get what we want and they can make money for their families. That's what makes this country successful, not some government official forcing you to do what they think is right.
While I agree. Let's please segregate all politics into separate threads. This one has drifted far.
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