Is the Mach-E really 7 years behind Tesla?

jlauro

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I doubt there's gonna be many dealerships that have DCFC chargers, especially open to the public. More likely L2. If any at all open to the public rather than just for their internal use, or reserved for their customers.

And in the broader sense, most of the people that need public charging will be road trippers. (Locals will typically be charging at home or work.) And road trippers typically need a full (or near-full) charge at each stop along their route.
If they are slow chargers you would be right that they would be good for emergency use only. I didn't ask what speed chargers they were installing or how many would be available to the public, and if public meant any EV or only Fords. It's pretty clear that at least some chargers at EV Ford dealership chargers will be open to all Ford customers, and that those will be level 3 fast chargers, not the slower speed L2 you are claiming. Personally, I don't really care if they open them up to other brands or only Ford customers.
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jlauro

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Locating chargers at dealerships is no more useful to most people than putting them at car washes. In fact, dealerships are one of the LEAST useful places I can think to locate them. Near a restaurant, or a store, or a school, or even a park are all better places, as there's at least something halfway decent to kill an hour doing.
There is contracts between Ford and dealerships. They can say you will support chargers for Ford customers, or you can't sell our product. Ford can't do that with the other locations you said. As a customer, for range anxiety I would much rather be guaranteed 1000 charger locations that already have a decent country wide distribution that I can do DC fast charging at than the "optimally placed" chargers that probably miss smaller towns as they are being placed in population dense areas to make a profit not to help range anxiety.
 

dbsb3233

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There is contracts between Ford and dealerships. They can say you will support chargers for Ford customers, or you can't sell our product. Ford can't do that with the other locations you said. As a customer, for range anxiety I would much rather be guaranteed 1000 charger locations that already have a decent country wide distribution that I can do DC fast charging at than the "optimally placed" chargers that probably miss smaller towns as they are being placed in population dense areas to make a profit not to help range anxiety.
I think we're just interpreting "having charger(s) at the dealership in order to be a certified EV dealer" differently. I don't think that means Ford dealers have to become retail charging locations open to the public like some seem to be expecting, or wishing. I think it more likely means chargers for their internal use (so they can service and test batteries in vehicles), and as a demo for potential buyers.

Some dealers may choose to add a few extra chargers in the lot as a perk for customers too. I'd expect some will (probably secured, but maybe not all).

But I think anyone expecting thousands of dealerships to offer full retail EV charging to the public is probably gonna be disappointed. I expect Ford to leave retail charging to the retail charging companies. Especially EA who they're partnering with.
 

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Fortunately, the I-95 rest areas in Maryland have a bank of free DCFCs with both Chademo and CCS-Combo. Usually at least 3/4 are working. They're perfectly placed for me to recharge my Leaf when I'm driving northeast from DC.
 

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But I think anyone expecting thousands of dealerships to offer full retail EV charging to the public is probably gonna be disappointed. I expect Ford to leave retail charging to the retail charging companies. Especially EA who they're partnering with.
Maybe... either way we will know in under a year.... it was pretty clear my local dealership was working to get chargers in place before the Mach E is available.
 


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I think we're just interpreting "having charger(s) at the dealership in order to be a certified EV dealer" differently. I don't think that means Ford dealers have to become retail charging locations open to the public like some seem to be expecting, or wishing. I think it more likely means chargers for their internal use (so they can service and test batteries in vehicles), and as a demo for potential buyers.

Some dealers may choose to add a few extra chargers in the lot as a perk for customers too. I'd expect some will (probably secured, but maybe not all).

But I think anyone expecting thousands of dealerships to offer full retail EV charging to the public is probably gonna be disappointed. I expect Ford to leave retail charging to the retail charging companies. Especially EA who they're partnering with.
EV dealers should have at least one customer accessible charger.

The Next Gen EV Certification requirements includes a minimum of two (2) Level II chargers
• One (1) Customer facing and one (1) Dedicated to service
• Customer facing and service requirements can be met with non-Ford L2 Chargers, including existing 32A chargers installed for prior EV certification.
 

dbsb3233

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EV dealers should have at least one customer accessible charger.

The Next Gen EV Certification requirements includes a minimum of two (2) Level II chargers
• One (1) Customer facing and one (1) Dedicated to service
• Customer facing and service requirements can be met with non-Ford L2 Chargers, including existing 32A chargers installed for prior EV certification.
Yep. For most, I envision that being one or more L2 chargers in the customer parking lot where the salesperson can walk the potential customer out, pull up a brand new EV, and demo how it plugs in and what the screens and settings look like. They're gonna want to keep one mostly free for that purpose.

I could also see some dealerships putting in a few extras to offer a "top off" perk to their customers. Usually inside their secured parking lot.

Some may go the extra mile and put a few out for public access off the street (unsecured), and/or have payment capability (contracted with Chargepoint or something). But I really don't expect that to be the norm. We'll see though.

I'd still rather see them at more useful places like hotels and apartment complexes. Especially for L2s.
 

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Bummer Ford is only requiring Level 2 chargers. Lots of Nissan dealers have installed DCFC (Level 3) chargers and have them available to any users.

The Nissan rollout has been far from perfect. Some ICE their chargers, some turn off their chargers when service closes, but it's still a good way to get a charge on the road.
 

ChasingCoral

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BTW, I found this interesting document online describing what Ford required for Next-Generation EV Certification in advance of the MME release. Interesting that it excludes the ZEV states. I guess Ford is applying more pressure for dealers in ZEV states to be certified.
 

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The've really drunk the koolaid. I about fell out of my seat when Zac said all the legacy manufacturers will be going out of business. And the other guy wasn't any better when he said "Well, OK, maybe they'll barely survive by all merging in one company". Good grief.

Not only are they massive Tesla fanboys, they're obviously ICE-haters too. That's why I call them activists that have lost all sense of reality. ICE will gradually shrink market share as BEV gains, but ICE (including PHEV) will still be the majority of sales for many, many years. A few companies may merge along the way as ICE share shrinks, but nowhere close to "all" of them.

Regarding legacy companies making their own BEVs, they seem to forget that MOST of the vehicle is not the drivetrain. Legacy automakers will have a way easier time incorporating a new drivetrain than Tesla had developing entire vehicles from the ground up.
It is funny, while I am not an activist, per se, my mind has completely switched gears, pun intended, to EVs and the Mach-E in particular. I used to love reading about cars and in particular, supercars and/or high horsepower others. But I find myself not interested now. I see headlines about things like the super powerful MB AMG GLA or the next Subie STI, etc. and I think, that is dumb. It is time to get past this and start saving the planet. I don't want to get political, but I couldn't fathom buying a car like that now. So, maybe I am becoming an activist, but I wish all the money on developing these higher and higher HP cars were being spent on better and more efficient EVs. Time is running out and EVs are fun in any case. Now, where did I put that cool-aid.
 
 




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