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Is the Mach-e really in the same market as the 3 or the Y?

Nak

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It seems to me that the Mach-e is really placed in a niche between the Y and the 3. The E has more cargo space than the 3 and it's a hatchback. The E tows (I think it will anyways) and the 3 doesn't. The Y has more cargo space (now rated at 68cf) than the E, tows more than the E, and has more ground clearance than the E. The Y will have an option for seating 7. The E has better looks than the Y, The E has a lower seating position than the Y. It definitely draws on the Mustang vibe. I think all 3 cars will sell every car Ford and Tesla can produce; they are all three competing against ICE cars, not against each other. (IMHO.) As more detailed information becomes available on the Y, I really think the E is about halfway between the two Teslas. I think it's market will be someone who wants more utility than the 3, but also wants a more car-like vehicle than the Y. Anyways, that's my take.
 

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I'd put Mach-E and Model Y as head to head competitors. That's totally how I view them. I have issues with Model 3. If Tesla addressed those issues I'd be looking at Model Y. Ford did address those issues so I put deposit down on Mach-E.

Both are CUV's.

The Model 3 is a sedan.
 

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Model Y will cannibalize model 3 sales. The performance, price, and where it matters to a lot of buyers - size - are way too similar. They look to similar and the average buyer is just gonna go with the Model Y. Tesla made a huge mistake with this in my opinion.

What I think will happen is Tesla will see Model 3 owners switch to a Mach E. The Mach E has that key look and differentiation that buyers want if they're looking to upgrade.


I like your take on it, but I really see buyers going with what they like best. They are both so similar and I think they are now on equal levels competition wise. There are some small advantages for the Model Y but certainly not deal breakers and overall I think the Mach E will be better value over the long term ownership.
 

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I agree that capability-wise the Mach E is between the models Y and 3, but I think that a small percentage of buyers will seriously be choosing between an ICE and an EV. It seems far more likely that those who are considering an EV are probably doing so for the ecological and economic reasons, such that the choice will be mutually exclusive by the average buyer: most will either definitely buy an EV or definitely NOT buy an EV. That suggests to me that PHEV's will compete with BEVs, but there aren't a lot of those at the moment.
 

dbsb3233

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I agree that capability-wise the Mach E is between the models Y and 3, but I think that a small percentage of buyers will seriously be choosing between an ICE and an EV. It seems far more likely that those who are considering an EV are probably doing so for the ecological and economic reasons, such that the choice will be mutually exclusive by the average buyer: most will either definitely buy an EV or definitely NOT buy an EV. That suggests to me that PHEV's will compete with BEVs, but there aren't a lot of those at the moment.
Yep. The first and foremost differentiator for just about any mainstream customer is whether to switch tracks to a BEV or not. There are key differences in refueling that potential buyers have to decide will even work for their situation. That's the first prerequisite. For millions, that answer is still No.

Only after they decide that can they decide which BEV to buy.

As for PHEVs, they'll really compete with ICE, not BEV. BEV won't be a viable option for many people (because of charging and range issues), but both ICE and PHEV solve that. Thus ICE and PHEV live in the same lane competing for the same customers (ones for whom a pure BEV isn't viable).
 

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Model Y will cannibalize model 3 sales
I think so as the CUV is the much preferred body design. Not sure why Tesla didn’t build it first vs. the Model 3 sedan. Talking to an X owner while charging and she switched form S to X for better visibility and utility. People looking at first buy on Tesla or Tesla buyers trading in will go Y.
 

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I think so as the CUV is the much preferred body design. Not sure why Tesla didn’t build it first vs. the Model 3 sedan. Talking to an X owner while charging and she switched form S to X for better visibility and utility. People looking at first buy on Tesla or Tesla buyers trading in will go Y.
They were very wise to produce the 3 before the Y. They have been supply constrained at the start, and now Tesla has people who can get their Model 3 into the used market and purchase a Model Y. Would be far less people interested in trading a Y in for a 3... This also let them improve their quality and production process on the 3 for the larger and more important Y market.
 

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They were very wise to produce the 3 before the Y. They have been supply constrained at the start, and now Tesla has people who can get their Model 3 into the used market and purchase a Model Y. Would be far less people interested in trading a Y in for a 3.
That Tesla owners would take the hit to get out of their Model 3 to get a Mode Y kind of proves the opposite. The hatchback issue was huge when Model 3 first introduced, original depositors such as myself bombarded Tesla to have a hatchback and Elon said he would and then said he couldn't.

Everyone always wanted the CUV not the sedan. There's hardly any difference between 3 and Y, some body work so doing Y first would have made the most sense.

"The auto industry is a popularity contest, and sedans are the clear losers these days."

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g25558401/best-selling-cars-suv-trucks-2018/
 

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They were very wise to produce the 3 before the Y. They have been supply constrained at the start, and now Tesla has people who can get their Model 3 into the used market and purchase a Model Y. Would be far less people interested in trading a Y in for a 3... This also let them improve their quality and production process on the 3 for the larger and more important Y market.
I agree completely. The 3 is wildly popular. They sold as many as they could make while building up manufacturing capacity and expertise. As for the Y cannibalizing the 3, I've never understood that concept. If a customer buys a Y instead of a 3, Tesla still gets the sale. They probably make a little more off the Y.
 

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As for does the question of the thread, I think that the Mach E is aimed more at the Y than the 3. Unfortunately for someone like me, I think they didn't go far enough. It's too much in the middle and not enough SUV.
 
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dbsb3233

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I agree completely. The 3 is wildly popular. They sold as many as they could make while building up manufacturing capacity and expertise. As for the Y cannibalizing the 3, I've never understood that concept. If a customer buys a Y instead of a 3, Tesla still gets the sale. They probably make a little more off the Y.
Plus, wasn't the big point of the 3 to prove to the world they could "make a $35,000 EV"? Not that the early versions were selling for that low, but still, I think that was the big hook they were going for. Can't get that low with a larger vehicle like the Y.
 

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I agree completely. The 3 is wildly popular. They sold as many as they could make while building up manufacturing capacity and expertise. As for the Y cannibalizing the 3, I've never understood that concept. If a customer buys a Y instead of a 3, Tesla still gets the sale. They probably make a little more off the Y.
It will cannibalize the sales of the 3, but it's normal for new models to cannibalize sales of old models. Just can't be surprised when sales of the 3 fall off... You want your products to compete with themself and not some other manufacturer to cannibalize your market. The only time it's a real issue is if it's radically different, such as photo prints vs. digital. The Y has 75% the same components as the 3, and that 25% that is different isn't radically different....
 

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I think so as the CUV is the much preferred body design. Not sure why Tesla didn’t build it first vs. the Model 3 sedan. Talking to an X owner while charging and she switched form S to X for better visibility and utility. People looking at first buy on Tesla or Tesla buyers trading in will go Y.
However many like myself consider the X to be an unattractive car, certainly the least attractive of all the current Tesla offerings. I'd also stay away from the X because of those problematic doors that have resulted in nothing but issues for owners.

I think the Y offers enough of what the X does, but in what will probably be a much more reliable package.
 

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I canceled the Model Y reservation and reserved the E (own Model S as well). I like the E due to the exterior design, like a modern classic (hope it makes sense) and interior. It's quite attractive. I hope Tesla can improve the design in 3 and Y in the next round. Yes, Tesla is better than anyone in technology: battery, software, motor efficiency and driving experience along with supercharging stations. There are a few things I don't like about my S which I rather not discuss here. I say E is competing both the Y and the ICE market. As EV coming out gangbuster in the next couple years, they are definitely competing the ICE market and hope customers can accept the idea of driving EVs like the European, remember cell phone acceptance?
 

Ken7

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^ You and I are largely on the same page. With that said, let's face it, there are often issues with Tesla's software. I've seen many people on these pages rave about Tesla's software, but there are tons of Tesla owners as evidenced on TMC, that despise Tesla's software. Some even go so far as to prevent their cars from getting software updates as long as they can.

Although Tesla will undoubtedly offer more OTA updates than the Mach-E, it's also possible the updates the Mach-E does receive will be less ridden with bugs. As so many Tesla owners say, there are almost always bugs associated with most of the new software releases...to say nothing of features that are sometimes actually deleted!

I certainly agree about the 'driving experience'. If I can get 80% of my S's driving experience, minus the rattles, I'll be golden.
 



 










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