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Is the Mach-e really in the same market as the 3 or the Y?

dbsb3233

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As EV coming out gangbuster in the next couple years, they are definitely competing the ICE market and hope customers can accept the idea of driving EVs like the European, remember cell phone acceptance?
For the people in the right situations, I think the coming wave of 250+ mile BEV SUVs/CUVs/trucks will get accepted and sell pretty well in the US.

But I'm guessing the "right situation" tops out around 30% of market penetration. That's mostly people that have a house and a garage to securely charge overnight in. That's where the real value and convenience exists for drivers -- just plugging in when you get home and charging at cheap residential rates.
 

mark360

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^ You and I are largely on the same page. With that said, let's face it, there are often issues with Tesla's software. I've seen many people on these pages rave about Tesla's software, but there are tons of Tesla owners as evidenced on TMC, that despise Tesla's software. Some even go so far as to prevent their cars from getting software updates as long as they can.

Although Tesla will undoubtedly offer more OTA updates than the Mach-E, it's also possible the updates the Mach-E does receive will be less ridden with bugs. As so many Tesla owners say, there are almost always bugs associated with most of the new software releases...to say nothing of features that are sometimes actually deleted!

I certainly agree about the 'driving experience'. If I can get 80% of my S's driving experience, minus the rattles, I'll be golden.
I agree with two of you. There is more to ownership than just having the best specs on paper, and the Mach E appears currently to be an excellent choice even if it doesn't match up 100%. In my experience with Tesla, everything is just too over-hyped. The car has serious flaws and their company has serious flaws that once owning the car, can't be overlooked.

I am going to test drive one and if it satisfies me, you best believe my Tesla is sold.
 
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Nak

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..most will either definitely buy an EV or definitely NOT buy an EV.
Yep. The first and foremost differentiator for just about any mainstream customer is whether to switch tracks to a BEV or not...

Only after they decide that can they decide which BEV to buy.
I disagree. I know many that are shopping both EV and ICE vehicles. At least here on the Left Coast, EV's have become a viable option to consider even for those who don't care about the environmental benefits. According to the Tesla sales people I've spoken too, the majority of folks that come in to look either don't care or don't believe that EVs are better for the planet. This is new, as a year ago the exact opposite was true. The future of the EV lies in it being better than ICE, not just better for the planet. Fortunately, cars like Tesla and the Mach-e are so much better than ICE cars that it becomes a no-brainer to get the EV. Tesla has--by far--the highest rate in the industry of translating test drives into sales. The Mach-e will be right up there too. (IMHO)

I think the Mach-e will fill a niche right between the two Teslas. If you compare directly against the Y, people want the E not because of utility, but because of it's more car-like vibe. Look at this forum. What is one of the biggest things like about the E? It's looks. It's Mustang vibe.

Everyone has individual needs and wants. That's why cars are different. Nobody is going to buy an E over a Y if their main need is SUV like utility. The Y tows more, carries more cargo, carries more people, has more ground clearance. But you can say most of that about the E when comparing it to the 3. The E has more of a car like feel and vibe than the Y and has more utility than the 3.

There will be people who love their Tesla's who will buy a Mach-e. Why? Because the E will suit their needs better. I know that's a fact, because I'm one of those looking at that. I think Tesla's are great cars. The absolute best on the market. I also think it's entirely possible that the E will be right up there too, and it may end up meeting my needs better. I'll see when it comes out. There will also be people who look at the E and then end up buying a 3 or a Y. Obviously that's true. They'll buy whichever vehicle meets their needs better.
 

SJ_Okay

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I have issues with Model 3. If Tesla addressed those issues I'd be looking at Model Y. Ford did address those issues so I put deposit down on Mach e
Do you mind me asking what those issues are? Apologies if you’ve listed them somewhere else on here. Having now seen the Y, it’s price and performance spec are better than the MME, so I am wondering what is it about Teslas that make you, or anyone else on here, want to switch?
 

dbsb3233

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I disagree. I know many that are shopping both EV and ICE vehicles. At least here on the Left Coast, EV's have become a viable option to consider even for those who don't care about the environmental benefits. According to the Tesla sales people I've spoken too, the majority of folks that come in to look either don't care or don't believe that EVs are better for the planet. This is new, as a year ago the exact opposite was true. The future of the EV lies in it being better than ICE, not just better for the planet.
That's not disagreement with what I said. It's just additional.

That describes me pretty well. By no means am I buying a Mach-e to be "green". That's not my thing. (In fact it's almost a turnoff because I don't like being told I "need" to be green by people with that agenda.) I'm buying a BEV because functionally it pairs well with the other (ICE) vehicle in our garage to provide the best of both worlds. BEV has advantages for certain uses, and ICE has advantages for other uses. Having one of each is a great combo.

AND what I said is also true. If a BEV like the Mach-e didn't fit for my situation, I wouldn't even consider it. That's what I was saying. And to be specific -- if I didn't have a house and a garage to conveniently charge a BEV overnight, I'd immediately dismiss the idea of getting one. That's one of the criteria I'm talking about as a prerequisite. Only IF first determining that the limitations of BEV charging fit for my situation was I able to consider which BEV to choose.

If a type of vehicle isn't a good fit for a buyer, most won't even consider that type (and logically so). People have to first decide that, since there are serious compromises with BEVs that make them a bad fit for many. Now, often times BOTH types (BEV and ICE) are a good fit for someone, and then they get to choose between either. That's what you're talking about them doing. But for the people where a BEV isn't a good fit, those people will simply stick with ICE (or PHEV).
 

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I disagree. I know many that are shopping both EV and ICE vehicles. At least here on the Left Coast, EV's have become a viable option to consider even for those who don't care about the environmental benefits. According to the Tesla sales people I've spoken too, the majority of folks that come in to look either don't care or don't believe that EVs are better for the planet.
Undoubtedly some of the people that walk into a Tesla store are contemplating both, but I would submit that a much larger number wouldn't even set foot inside of the Tesla store because of range anxiety, FUD, or dislike of "treehuggers".

I'm buying a BEV because functionally it pairs well with the other (ICE) vehicle in our garage to provide the best of both worlds. BEV has advantages for certain uses, and ICE has advantages for other uses. Having one of each is a great combo.
And indeed this is a change from years ago, but 2 things stand out: you want to buy a BEV now for its advantages over an ICE, and you are an ICE because of the limitations of BEVs (presumably range/charging for road trips). So, you are shopping only a BEV right now since you already have the ICE.

As for myself, I fully intend to get a BEV (almost definitely a Mach E) for my driving and will replace my wife's gas guzzling Durango with a PHEV in the near future. My reasons are consistent with what I believe yours are: I want a BEV for its benefits, and I still want a car that has the capability for convenient long road trips. However, I agree with the green agenda which is why I want a PHEV instead of a pure ICE: my wife has a 5 mile commute so both of us will be driving electric during the week but can still take a 500 mile road trip with the convenience of gas.
 

mark360

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Do you mind me asking what those issues are? Apologies if you’ve listed them somewhere else on here. Having now seen the Y, it’s price and performance spec are better than the MME, so I am wondering what is it about Teslas that make you, or anyone else on here, want to switch?
Tesla service is awful in my experience. The car interior squeaks so bad it sounds like a wooden floor board. Been to service three times over it and they pretty much said it was normal. They will no longer try to fix the squeaks under warranty and charge a $70 diagnostic fee


You can’t call Tesla Service. You can only contact them through their app which is a story in of its self.

Just about any car dealership I’ve used in the past had better service. I mean any, you name it.

Tesla service has the highest hourly rates out of all legacy car manufacturers. They can’t do state inspections.

The car is great, outside of the After sales support.
 

dbsb3233

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And indeed this is a change from years ago, but 2 things stand out: you want to buy a BEV now for its advantages over an ICE, and you are an ICE because of the limitations of BEVs (presumably range/charging for road trips). So, you are shopping only a BEV right now since you already have the ICE.

As for myself, I fully intend to get a BEV (almost definitely a Mach E) for my driving and will replace my wife's gas guzzling Durango with a PHEV in the near future. My reasons are consistent with what I believe yours are: I want a BEV for its benefits, and I still want a car that has the capability for convenient long road trips. However, I agree with the green agenda which is why I want a PHEV instead of a pure ICE: my wife has a 5 mile commute so both of us will be driving electric during the week but can still take a 500 mile road trip with the convenience of gas.
Yep. I'm careful to qualify it. Some talk as though BEVs are better period, but I disagree with that. They're better in certain situations, and worse in other situations. For instance, I have no interest in 15-45 minute refuel stops (a detriment on road trips, but it would be a complete deal-breaker on a regular basis around town). Without easy, consistent, dependable overnight charging at home, I would nix any idea of getting a BEV. A PHEV would be a consideration, but not a BEV that required public charging. I probably won't get a PHEV though only because our current Escape + the Mach-e should last us the rest of our driving lives. If we did drop to a single vehicle in the household, it would probably be a PHEV.

Since I do have a house and a garage, plus a 2nd vehicle (ICE) in the garage for road trips, a BEV is perfect for most of the around-home miles. 100% of my charging at home, at cheap residential rates, basically used within a 70 mile radius of home. (Which is almost all of our driving anyway.)
 

jandkw

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Tesla service is awful in my experience. The car interior squeaks so bad it sounds like a wooden floor board. Been to service three times over it and they pretty much said it was normal. They will no longer try to fix the squeaks under warranty and charge a $70 diagnostic fee


You can’t call Tesla Service. You can only contact them through their app which is a story in of its self.

Just about any car dealership I’ve used in the past had better service. I mean any, you name it.

Tesla service has the highest hourly rates out of all legacy car manufacturers. They can’t do state inspections.

The car is great, outside of the After sales support.
You said it, mark360. Be aware that even Tesla started to do fender bender repair in their service center, what about if the car needs more than FB. My experience is there is no body shop in my area that's willing to do body work due to Tesla's certification requirement along with long lead time to get the parts. At 43K miles, I have to change the 12v battery 3 times (one is under warranty), TPMS, battery pack (under warranty due to incompatibility of new software), 3rd set of tires (due to regen brake & high torque which is not Tesla's fault). These are something I never experienced for my 30+ years of car ownership. Having said that, Tesla has improved their parts quality over the years, but I have no idea what the latest models S, X, 3 and Y look like. With all that said, I still enjoy my S, the best driving experience I ever had compared to Honda, BMW, Lexus and other vehicles I own in the past. I really hope Mach E can match that. We shall see.
 

efisher

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It seems to me that the Mach-e is really placed in a niche between the Y and the 3. The E has more cargo space than the 3 and it's a hatchback. The E tows (I think it will anyways) and the 3 doesn't. The Y has more cargo space (now rated at 68cf) than the E, tows more than the E, and has more ground clearance than the E. The Y will have an option for seating 7. The E has better looks than the Y, The E has a lower seating position than the Y. It definitely draws on the Mustang vibe. I think all 3 cars will sell every car Ford and Tesla can produce; they are all three competing against ICE cars, not against each other. (IMHO.) As more detailed information becomes available on the Y, I really think the E is about halfway between the two Teslas. I think it's market will be someone who wants more utility than the 3, but also wants a more car-like vehicle than the Y. Anyways, that's my take.
So the Mach E is a better Model Y than the Model Y and a better Model 3 than the Model 3!
 

DaveRuns

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It seems to me that the Mach-e is really placed in a niche between the Y and the 3. The E has more cargo space than the 3 and it's a hatchback. The E tows (I think it will anyways) and the 3 doesn't. The Y has more cargo space (now rated at 68cf) than the E, tows more than the E, and has more ground clearance than the E. The Y will have an option for seating 7. The E has better looks than the Y, The E has a lower seating position than the Y. It definitely draws on the Mustang vibe. I think all 3 cars will sell every car Ford and Tesla can produce; they are all three competing against ICE cars, not against each other. (IMHO.) As more detailed information becomes available on the Y, I really think the E is about halfway between the two Teslas. I think it's market will be someone who wants more utility than the 3, but also wants a more car-like vehicle than the Y. Anyways, that's my take.
For me personally, they are competing against each other....even if not in the same category. For instance, the choice came down to either a Model Y, or a MME. Actually, it's still an open choice. I'll make the determination when I'm test driving "my car", once it's delivered.
 

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What does that even mean?
It means we are on a Ford MME forum, with all the fanboys (and a few Tesla customers that now strongly dislike Tesla). The MME is better in every way ;)

If you want to read the other side of the argument, visit the Tesla forum: Why not buy a MME

I actually enjoy reading both, and try to see fact vs fud from both sides. Some things to go Ford, some go to Tesla. YMMV.
 



 









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