It's only my opinion. Not based on any FACTS

engnrng

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PHEV have been around 7 to 8 years and still slow sales. 2 reasons I know of. First, the sales people have no clue what they are even now, can't answer questions, give wrong answers, and steer customers to other ICE because that is what they and the Sales Managers know how to sell. Second, when I went to test drive a PHEV (Ford Energi), and later when I sent friends to test drive a PHEV, there were NONE ON THE LOT WITH A CHARGE!! I even rescheduled for the next day so they could have one charged up that I could drive all-electric. When I went the next day, they insisted they had put a charger on the 12V battery overnight and it was fully charged, and they knew that the car would start this time. I repeat, they H-A-D N-O C-L-U-E!!!! The Sales Manager D-I-D N-O-T K-N-O-W what a PHEV is! I am not kidding folks. Last year, I was at a dealership having my last ICE serviced, noticed a couple looking at a hybrid, talking about wanting one. I answered a couple of questions and they were very interested, then the salesman came up. Within 2 minutes he had them test driving an ICE instead of the Hybrid because they did not have a charger at home. That's right, the Salesman told them they needed a charger for the Hybrid car. I hope customers have learned a lot more since Tesla owners have been out educating their friends and family. They certainly can't get much useful or accurate information at a dealer. Maybe Ford can get that part right this time....
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SJ_Okay

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Yep, UK is actually brought the ICE ban forward to 2035. This is the pricing. The majority are only 5.5kw, some even 3kw, but it’s going to be enough for most people overnight.

Pay as you go: 0.33p/KWH (0.41c)

Casual user: ÂŁ38 per month, capped at 800kwh ($47)

Heavy use: ÂŁ68 per month, unlimited charging. ($85)

No connection charges for any level of user. I suspect there will be more companies coming forward to offer units for the lamp posts, so I expect to see costs and subscriptions to start to vary as more companies offer their products.
 
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Ken7

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EV enthusiasts/activists aren't the average Joe though. Yes, some are happy to make those sacrifices "for the cause", but I'm talking about mainstream acceptance. And I think a 20-40 minute refuel time is gonna be a showstopper for most.

BUT... if they're in position to do virtually all of their refuels with 8-hour charges while home sleeping, or at work, and don't need to do slow on-demand fillups at a station, then it's whole different matter. And that will be the mainstream market for BEVs IMO. Not people that need to charge at public stations.

That's also true from a financial benefit perspective. Retail charging is pricey compared to at-home residential charging. One of the big selling points of BEVs for mainstream buyers is fuel cost savings compared to gasoline. But only at cheaper residential rates. EA charging can cost as much or more than gasoline.
So here are some dirty little secrets regarding the Tesla EV charging world. My MS is 2 1/2 years old and for quite some time Mr. Musk has significantly slowed down my charging rates at Super Chargers. Nobody that bought a Tesla was told this would eventually happen. Since I have unlimited free charging and my electric rates are very high, I do use a SC quite frequently.

The theories abound as to why Tesla did this. Fires, punishment for high SC use, battery longevity, you pick em’. However there are many out there who almost never SC yet are still throttled. The fact is when I hook up at a SC, the time displayed on my screen is an absolute joke. I charged yesterday with 75 miles of range remaining. My display showed 35 minutes to get to my 90% capacity (approximately 210 miles) where I have it set. In reality it took almost 1 hour. Yes, Tesla thinks it’s best to embellish charging times as if no one will notice. It would be incredibly simple to adjust the algorithm so that charging time is accurate, but no, it’s not happening.

It wasn’t always like this. Charging times used to be quite accurate prior to their SC throttling. So with this in mind, how many think that someone coming from the 3 minute ICE refueling world will be happy with this? I’ll hazard a guess, nobody.

At sub $2/gallon gas prices and high electric rates in many parts of the country, this is not the time for widespread EV adoption for ICE owners. Ironically, they may sell more EVs to current EV owners who understand the fun of driving an EV as opposed to the drawbacks. I’m sorry, saving the world is lower down on my list as to why I drive an EV. It’s nice, but it’s honestly not at the top of my list.

This is why range is very important to me. Most EV owners who move to their second EV also place range very high up on their needs list. If you never plan on using chargers outside of home or work, fine. But a word to the wise for those that don’t, range, range and did I say range?
 

dbsb3233

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@LYTMCQ @dbsb3233 @ChasingCoral - on the topic of home charging, in London, UK, some councils have started installing charge points on street lamps, which is great for local residents who only have on street parking. In UK cities, most of the parking is on street, so this is a really great initiative that’s should help a lot of people make the switch. I think they’ve only installed 1000 so far, but it’s a good start.
While every little bit helps, I would still pass on getting a BEV unless that was a dedicated, guaranteed charging spot I knew I could get every night when coming home. If it's just first-come-first-served, then there's sure to be lots of times I'd get home near empty and desperate to plug in, only to find all the spots with chargers already full. And the last thing I'd wanna do is go back outside every hour playing the EV version of musical chairs to find a charger.
 

timbop

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There are cases when having a BEV is practical and other cases where it is not. There are some situations wherein a BEV is very economical and others in which the economics loses out to to an ICE. This fact is undeniable in the BEV space, whereas ICE vehicles haven't had to face this situation for the last 100 years (when gas stations became ubiquitous). The combinations and permutations of the factors (income, distance of daily commute, frequency and distance of long drives, ability to home charge, electrical rates, availability and relative cost of home solar, government incentives, personal preferences, number of vehicles owned, etc) involved are enough that there isn't a clear "typical" situation with regards to BEV ownership.

I wish that BEV's were always the better choice in all situations, but as of right now they aren't. Thus BEV's cannot displace ICE cars completely - or even for the vast majority. Yet. If the "cons" outweigh the "pros" for you then you should not get one.

While it is only human nature to assume that our situation is "typical" and thus applies to a majority, that just isn't true - for anyone.
 


SJ_Okay

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Residential street Parking in London is very rarely free... especially in zones 1-4. Almost everywhere is resident permit holders only With some having a 2-4 hour window where you can pay and display, so it’s you’re not going to struggle to get a spot.

You’re right, £38 a month for 800kwh is ridiculously cheap... I’m guessing they’re expecting to take advantage of the lower night tariff rates, and as it is a local council initiative, they’re not trying to profiteer. They should make their money back in time, from the pay as you go customers. But, it’s still early in the roll out, so I expect a lot to change.
 

timbop

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Thank you for COMPLETELY missing my point and stating that unequivocally for all cases. I really have no desire to argue with you for 4 pages in this thread, but let me give you my situtation as an example:

At the current way-to-low-to-last price of $2/gallon, I am just about at a breakeven here in NJ comparing a Select edition Mach-E to a nicely appointed SUV (keeping apples to apples). With the federal and state incentives of $12,500, along with the NJ sales tax exemption a RWD Select edition costs as much as a $29,500 ICE SUV. Assuming normal non-coronavirus conditions that would be something like a ford escape with 1.5L ecoboost getting 28 combined MPG.

  • I am certain that the 6 second 0-60 time is going to be better than that escape.
  • At 1500 miles a month, the gas would be $107 at $2/gallon (which WILL NOT last). At my current electric rates ($.18/kwhr) and an average efficiency of 2.75mi/kwh the E would cost me $97 to go that same 1500 miles
Clearly the actual efficiency of the E is unknown, so if I bought a Bolt instead the purchase price would be about the same without the $7500 fed tax break, and the fuel cost would be lower. Again, just an example that disproves your blanket premise
 

engnrng

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I guess we don't live in the same worlds, LYTMCQ. I tend to get full featured, highly safe cars. The last ICE I bought 2 years ago was mid-40's, top of the line equipment. The EV I purchased last year with mostly the same features and safety equipment was also in the mid-40's, before the $7500 tax credit, yes it was a smaller 5 seater instead of 7 seats. In my mind, the $100 per month gas savings makes the EV lower cost to own. Both vehicles are safe, very comfortable on trips, great for daily commutes. Am looking forward to adding the MME to the stable late this year for my wife to use as her daily driver. We will then only use the ICE for long driving vacations. It will last us a couple of decades in that service. I also expect the EV's to last us 20+ years, well into retirement.

EV's can be an answer to car performance, comfort, safety, and economy issues, in addition to reduction of air pollution and slowing sea level rise. (I also have plenty of solar to support our house and 2 EV's.)
 
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timbop

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58-43 is 15. Since the Mach E's MSRP factors in the $7500, the difference is actually $7500. Chevy magically started discounting the Bolt in January as the Fed rebate phased out, and Ford will likely follow suit when the time comes. Also, March 15th to June 15th is 3 months.

When you make self-inconsistent statements that are clearly off by 25% to 50% you lose all credibility.
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