Kia EV6GT is Mustang Mach-E GT competition

[DBC]

So does anyone have a realistic analysis of how much of a premium this type of gearing adds to the cost of an EV? Are there durability/maintenance concerns with this over the "standard" type gearing?

I think you have to say there are open questions. ZF had made transmissions for hybrids and these have been durable. But this is really the first one used in a BEV. My guess is that it will be similar to other transmissions.

No secret sauce, but for main stream adoption we need better batteries with more capacity and faster more plentiful charging options

For sure though it might be an "or" rather than an "and". There are also limits on the utility of adding range. Once you hit 400 miles of range, the cost of adding more miles may outweigh the value of those additional miles. The charging infrastructure is moving along quickly and hopefully that will continue.

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[vinny2487]

This is a really cool feature. It reminds me of the F-150's hybrid system being able to do something similar.

 

[supertramp]

Wow... The car sounds like a real contender - two questions, price id the bigger one and mileage is the less significant one. All the rest looks very, very competitive - by the time I get my MME (mid summer?) we might have much more info on this Kia EV. They still have plenty of Fed Tax credit spots left, right?

 

[Nick Nick]

I see styling talk, I see range talk, I see performance talk, but I did not see any mention of the most important feature of all.

How much is it going to cost?

It's in-line with what the Mach-E costs here in the UK
So it would be down to preference (and the 7 year warranty of a Kia)

The GT making 450kw and beating a lamborghini Urus, Porsche, Merc AMG GT and Ferrari was a standout!

https://www.motor1.com/news/497761/kia-ev6-gt-supercar-race/

 

[SteveUk]

It's a pity the battery doesn't match the mache ER size

 

[Blanked]

Nice TOW RIG!

 

[trutolife27]

The EV6 I bet will be a contender. I've owned 3 Kia's in a row. The one thing you can count on is quality construction. I initially went Kia back before I had any loot; as they offered all the bells and whistles with a small price tag. Stayed with them for the quality and I like a deal. In addition they have the benefit of EV experience (NIRO and Soul). Wonder what the price tag will look like?

My MME is not scheduled to go to production until the week of May 30th. So I figure July is the earliest I'll see it. I will continue to watch over my shoulder for the EV6. Sounds like range will be about 20 miles per charge less than the MME.

Kia, Hyundai who really owns them since the bankruptcy in 1997. But before that ford was Kia. Ford had the chance to buy Kia but was outbid by Hyundai as ford moved on with Mazda instead of bidding higher for Kia.

I remember when you could get the Kia car and van deal. 2 vehicles for under 10,000. no aircon, no power windows, and no radio. wild days. I think also no passenger mirror.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Kia, Hyundai who really owns them since the bankruptcy in 1997. But before that ford was Kia. Ford had the chance to buy Kia but was outbid by Hyundai as ford moved on with Mazda instead of bidding higher for Kia.

I remember when you could get the Kia car and van deal. 2 vehicles for under 10,000. no aircon, no power windows, and no radio. wild days. I think also no passenger mirror.

I think maybe I've shared this story before but my first person encounter with a Kia was with a Rio at the Cleveland Auto Show - this was very early in their efforts in the US, when it was "cheap and that's it" going for it. The thing I remember to this day is that it's the only car I've ever personally seen where having a radio - any radio - was an option; the one on the floor didn't have the option, just a single DIN cubby hole where the radio would be.

they've come a very, very long way from that. I think that the Hyundai purchase was a great thing for them, because Hyundai's cars came a very long way in that time as well (and Hyundai, for those who don't know, is actually a fairly large conglomerate, so they could afford to throw money at the car side until it "stuck").

that said, this history is why the dealers still have a reputation. I took a short test drive in a top end Stinger the first year they were out (again at the Cleveland Auto Show), and it was a blast - a real solid sports car - but I couldn't see myself spending that much on something with the Kia name on it and going through the dealership experience I knew I'd have to go through. (I guess the Mach-E dealership experience was a bit of a karmic "f you" on that part.)

 

[silverelan]

Its a really cool car. The only thing that is probably going to keep me away from considering it is the fact that the longest range rwd model only gets 316 mile WLTP rating. That means the GT version is probably going to end up with a 200 mile EPA rating at best, and I'd honestly be surprised if it manages to hits that mark. It also starts at $45k so the GT will probably be priced on par with our own GT model around $60k. Then again, 800V architecture is really really awesome to see, maybe that would be enough to offset the lower range. We shall have to wait and see.

Rule of thumb is that EPA range equates to 80% of WLTP. If the longest range EV6 goes 316 miles WLTP on 77kWh, then the EV6 GT has gotta be in the low 200s. A good approximation might be the Polestar 2 with 292mi WLTP and 233mi EPA, maximum Real world 70mph range in the low 200s.

There are a few technical advantages that Kia can claim. Firstly, they say the heat pump preserves 80% of range down to 19F. 18 minutes charging to 80% makes up for the relatively short 200mi range, and V2L charging capabilities.

------------
So thinking out loud here...
If the MME GT has 250 miles of optimal real world range, then we're looking at 225mi 90% first leg and 175mi subsequent legs with 40-45min charging stops to go 10% to 80%.

Using the same thresholds, the EV6 with 200 miles of real world range would get 180mi on the first leg and 140mi subsequent legs taking 18 minutes each.

Starting from home with 100% and two stops to go to 80%:
MME GT travels 225+175+175 = 575mi, 80-90 mins of charging.
EV6 GT travels 180+140+140 = 460mi, 36 mins.

If Ford shaved the 10% to 80% time down to 30 minutes, the charging time difference would be basically negligible to drive the same distance.

 

[trutolife27]

Rule of thumb is that EPA range equates to 80% of WLTP. If the longest range EV6 goes 316 miles WLTP on 77kWh, then the EV6 GT has gotta be in the low 200s. A good approximation might be the Polestar 2 with 292mi WLTP and 233mi EPA, maximum Real world 70mph range in the low 200s.

There are a few technical advantages that Kia can claim. Firstly, they say the heat pump preserves 80% of range down to 19F. 18 minutes charging to 80% makes up for the relatively short 200mi range, and V2L charging capabilities.

------------
So thinking out loud here...
If the MME GT has 250 miles of optimal real world range, then we're looking at 225mi 90% first leg and 175mi subsequent legs with 40-45min charging stops to go 10% to 80%.

Using the same thresholds, the EV6 with 200 miles of real world range would get 180mi on the first leg and 140mi subsequent legs taking 18 minutes each.

Starting from home with 100% and two stops to go to 80%:
MME GT travels 225+175+175 = 575mi, 80-90 mins of charging.
EV6 GT travels 180+140+140 = 460mi, 36 mins.

If Ford shaved the 10% to 80% time down to 30 minutes, the charging time difference would be basically negligible to drive the same distance.

and that is my point as before. If one ford can get 10 mintues off the charge time, well its a big deal.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Rule of thumb is that EPA range equates to 80% of WLTP. If the longest range EV6 goes 316 miles WLTP on 77kWh, then the EV6 GT has gotta be in the low 200s. A good approximation might be the Polestar 2 with 292mi WLTP and 233mi EPA, maximum Real world 70mph range in the low 200s.

There are a few technical advantages that Kia can claim. Firstly, they say the heat pump preserves 80% of range down to 19F. 18 minutes charging to 80% makes up for the relatively short 200mi range, and V2L charging capabilities.

------------
So thinking out loud here...
If the MME GT has 250 miles of optimal real world range, then we're looking at 225mi 90% first leg and 175mi subsequent legs with 40-45min charging stops to go 10% to 80%.

Using the same thresholds, the EV6 with 200 miles of real world range would get 180mi on the first leg and 140mi subsequent legs taking 18 minutes each.

Starting from home with 100% and two stops to go to 80%:
MME GT travels 225+175+175 = 575mi, 80-90 mins of charging.
EV6 GT travels 180+140+140 = 460mi, 36 mins.

If Ford shaved the 10% to 80% time down to 30 minutes, the charging time difference would be basically negligible to drive the same distance.

wait this doesn't really make a lot of sense here - why would you compare charging time for two different distances? that seems a bit weird. I get it you're doing 100% / 80% / 80% in both cases but comparing charging time for two different distances feels a bit like numbers for the sake of numbers instead of meaningful?

 

[silverelan]

and that is my point as before. If one ford can get 10 mintues off the charge time, well its a big deal.

From your keyboard to Donna Dickson's ear. ?

wait this doesn't really make a lot of sense here - why would you compare charging time for two different distances? that seems a bit weird. I get it you're doing 100% / 80% / 80% in both cases but comparing charging time for two different distances feels a bit like numbers for the sake of numbers instead of meaningful?

Don't overthink it. It's simply a paper range test to illustrate how far each car can go with two charging stops. It looks to me it would take an extra stop for the Kia EV6 to cover the same distance as the MME GT.

 

[buzznwood]

So thinking out loud here...
If the MME GT has 250 miles of optimal real world range, then we're looking at 225mi 90% first leg and 175mi subsequent legs with 40-45min charging stops to go 10% to 80%.

As we are at present really just dealing with paper specs for both it is only the GT-performance that comes close to the EV6 GT on specs, and that has a paper range of 235 miles vs the 250 of the base GT.

Problem is until we get a proper test of both we will never really known as based on those paper specs the mach-e GT performance has a lot more torque but a lot less power , smaller wheels with a smaller section width tire and a much lower top speed , it does have the benefit of a larger battery vs the EV6 GT but that will come at the cost of more weight and longer time to charge How all this will equate to a final comparison of each vehicles efficiency and how it may impact a road trip is really going to have to be a wait and see.

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