Let Ford (Mike Levine) know if you see dealer ADM on Mach-E

[LagerHead]

So in your world paying for something now that may or may not work in the future is O.K. Still you have to admit it’s fan boy loyalty that you fell for.

Correct. As long as you know the rules. I've supported my lifestyle for the last 30 years by being an investor. So I'm well accustomed to paying more than something is worth based on an educated guess that it will be worth more in the future. It's a risk that I only take when I think the odds are in my favor. I will buy stock options that have a greater than 50% chance of expiring worthless (but I know that before I plunk down the cash). I've made a lot of money on stock options so paying for something that may or may not pan out is not foreign to me at all.

I'm only a "Tesla fanboy" in the sense that I think their products are great. I'm still in awe of the two cars sitting in my driveway every time I take one of them for a spin but I'm not blind, I like them because they drive so well and are so easy to use. They are very refined products. Why wouldn't I be a fan?

I'm also a Stihl chainsaw fanboy. I'm still loving the one I bought in the 1990's and it's light and powerful, always starts easily and has never broken after many storm cleanups, and cords of firewood. There's nothing wrong with liking products that serve you well and are trouble-free. That's precisely why I think one should like a product.

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[AllenXS]

Honestly I'm kind of sick of the Tesla bashing. It's getting old. Not that I'm innocent. I've relayed my terrible MY experience here multiple times and why I'm now in a MachE.

No one's going to win this war. You might as well bring politics into the forum while your at it if this is what threads are going to turn into. Elon is Elon. You love him or you hate him. I used to be a fan but not so much anymore. But I respect his companies. They have done amazing things that benefit us all.

Totally agree. People are taking it way too serious. I do trust no one has been offended by my dry humor. It is great we can have the Tesla /Mach-e discussion. The rate the market is evolving the benchmark will change and the "war" will be long forgotten before we know it.

I want to thank the Tesla owners for pioneering the industry. And for all the car companies for taking on the challenge even if they have been forced somewhat.

Mach - E owners get out and drive /promote. Let the market decide.

 

[bluestarct]

See, this is what I don't think belongs here. You are using a thread about ADM to slam Tesla with untruths and then people complain that Tesla people are hijacking the thread.

If inaccurate and misleading information unrelated to the purpose of this thread wasn't being posted as if it were true, no one would be talking Tesla here. I came here to learn about Fords first serious EV (I'm a huge EV enthusiast) but I was shocked to to see people repeating TSLAQ Tesla misinformation here as if it were true. When I explained why the posted info was misleading and false, a whole flood of anti-Tesla untruths were unleashed. It's something I might expect to see on a Dodge Ram forum (or maybe even an F-150 forum) but not on a forum for other EV enthusiasts.

As to FSD being fraudulent, I've already explained why it's clearly not. A number of Tesla owners also believe autonomous driving is not solvable in the next decade but they don't call it a fraud because they are aware that purchase of FSD doesn't guarantee FSD . Purchase of FSD only guarantees the right to FSD as it is developed. So why do they own a Tesla if they think FSD development won't be fruitful? Because they love the car, the features such as Autopilot, and they don't have to pay a dime for FSD since they don't think Tesla will develop it successfully.

Clearly, you don't think Tesla will succeed at FSD and that is fine. But don't call it fraud when Tesla allows those who want it to essentially buy an option on it at a price well below the market value of the completed product.

And nowhere did I say my wife and I spent $20K on FSD! So that's more misinformation. I believe mine was $3.5K and my wife's was $4k. It depends upon when it's purchased. The price has been going up as FSD development progresses.

When people stop posting anti-Tesla misinformation in a non-Tesla thread, I will stop posting about Tesla to correct the misinformation. But the anti -Tesla misinformation hasn't stopped yet. There is a veritable fountain of it. All of it demonstrably false and misleading.

Does that FSD come with a heat pump?

 

[LagerHead]

No one's going to win this war. You might as well bring politics into the forum while your at it if this is what threads are going to turn into. Elon is Elon. You love him or you hate him. I used to be a fan but not so much anymore. But I respect his companies. They have done amazing things that benefit us all.

It shouldn't be about Jim Farley or Elon Musk, and whether you love them or hate them, it should be about the products their companies offer. I don't like my cars because of the CEO, I like them for the way they drive (and everything related). The CEO might have had a hand in it but that's not part of my experience, I can only experience the products I can buy.

The CEO is usually brought into car forums in an attempt to discredit the products they make.

 

[LagerHead]

Does that FSD come with a heat pump?

I don't understand. The heatpumps come on the newer Tesla models, it has nothing to do with the FSD software.

 

[mburtsvt]

Correct. As long as you know the rules. I've supported my lifestyle for the last 30 years by being an investor. So I'm well accustomed to paying more than something is worth based on an educated guess that it will be worth more in the future. It's a risk that I only take when I think the odds are in my favor. I will buy stock options that have a greater than 50% chance of expiring worthless (but I know that before I plunk down the cash). I've made a lot of money on stock options so paying for something that may or may not pan out is not foreign to me at all.

I'm only a "Tesla fanboy" in the sense that I think their products are great. I'm still in awe of the two cars sitting in my driveway every time I take one of them for a spin but I'm not blind, I like them because they drive so well and are so easy to use. They are very refined products. Why wouldn't I be a fan?

I'm also a Stihl chainsaw fanboy. I'm still loving the one I bought in the 1990's and it's light and powerful, always starts easily and has never broken after many storm cleanups, and cords of firewood. There's nothing wrong with liking products that serve you well and are trouble-free. That's precisely why I think one should like a product.

Such a fan boy....

 

[buffasnow]

It shouldn't be about Jim Farley or Elon Musk, and whether you love them or hate them, it should be about the products their companies offer. I don't like my cars because of the CEO, I like them for the way they drive (and everything related). The CEO might have had a hand in it but that's not part of my experience, I can only experience the products I can buy.

The CEO is usually brought into car forums in an attempt to discredit the products they make.

Weeellllll.....the CEO generally only gets brought into things when the CEO acts kind of dickish. I haven't seen too many people bringing up anonymous CEOs, because those CEOs aren't out there cultivating followers with questionable tweets.

To me, Musk is akin to a dealer charging ADM. I think ADM is kind of scummy, even if legal, and has nothing to do with the car itself. I won't patronize that dealership, and I will probably advise others not to as well, because I want to discourage what I see as bad behavior.

I understand that not everyone sees things my way, and I don't hate or even dislike Teslas because of Musk. But I don't want one, partly because of him. Your reasoning and choices are likely very different, and also valid. We all probably choose to do business with companies based on what they or their leaders do or fail to do.

Also, criticism is not hate. That's a meaningful word these days, and I hope we all agree that we don't want to equate critical remarks, regardless of perceived or actual validity, with violence and discrimination. I think it's possible to object to someone else's posts without using the word hate.

 

[LagerHead]

Weeellllll.....the CEO generally only gets brought into things when the CEO acts kind of dickish. I haven't seen too many people bringing up anonymous CEOs, because those CEOs aren't out there cultivating followers with questionable tweets.

To me, Musk is akin to a dealer charging ADM. I think ADM is kind of scummy, even if legal, and has nothing to do with the car itself. I won't patronize that dealership, and I will probably advise others not to as well, because I want to discourage what I see as bad behavior.

I understand that not everyone sees things my way, and I don't hate or even dislike Teslas because of Musk. But I don't want one, partly because of him. Your reasoning and choices are likely very different, and also valid. We all probably choose to do business with companies based on what they or their leaders do or fail to do.

Also, criticism is not hate. That's a meaningful word these days, and I hope we all agree that we don't want to equate critical remarks, regardless of perceived or actual validity, with violence and discrimination. I think it's possible to object to someone else's posts without using the word hate.

I think it's fine to not buy the product because you don't like the CEO, I just don't like all the bashing. If you don't like Elon Musk, don't buy a Tesla. But it looks utterly ridiculous when some individuals run around claiming Elon is bamboozling customers. He's not, it's all there in black and white and I don't know anyone who was fooled.

I'll weigh in on ADM - I don't have a problem with it as long as it's all done in the open. The bad experiences I've have at legacy dealerships involve the way they often try to add on stuff that wasn't disclosed and also some of them have very questionable service practices in their shops. I won't go into the details Both of these areas are where Tesla shines. In the end we all decide what product is right for us individually, just as it should be.

I agree that criticism isn't hate. But you have to admit, a lot of people are hoping for Tesla to fail and they will critisize to that end. It crosses the line when it's not truthful. Like the article recently posted here about a "self-driving Tesla" backing into another car. It had nothing to do with Self-driving or autopilot and cars back into one another every day without it making headlines. It part of a habitual "let's make Tesla look bad" even when they haven't done anything. That story was posted here under the guise of "self-driving" being dangerous.

 

[LagerHead]

Such a fan boy....

I would like to be a fan boy of more products but they often don't live up to my expectations. In an ideal world I would be a fan boy of everything I bought.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

wow three more pages on the ADM thread and all of the posts are about Tesla.

folks you all need to let this thread die. there's literally nothing productive being said at this point. it's basically legitimate Tesla criticism and people getting pissed because Tesla is being criticized. take it to a Tesla forum already.

 

[LagerHead]

No rational person could interpret that statement literally. If your friend is an NFL Quarterback and he tells you "This year we're going to win the Superbowl, we've got the team, the depth of experience, everything is coming together. We can't lose." Does this mean:

1) He has a high level of confidence they will win.
2) They will win. It's a fact.

People who are highly driven to succeed often think and talk like this. I think even a 3rd grade football fan could understand what a statement like that actually meant. Because to interpret it any other way is non-sensical.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Perhaps the @Administrator can do us all a favor and lock this thread. Then maybe pin it in a brand new “Forum Rules and Etiquette” section as a “Don’t Let This Happen to Your Good Topic” case study.

To refresh everyone’s memory, this thread is about ADM and Mr. Levine helping some to avoid ADM, or Mike Levine not helping regarding ADM, or why Mike Levine might want to help regarding ADM, or whether it’s even appropriate for Mr. Levine to help regarding ADM.

Key Takeaway #1 : ADM
Key Takeaway #2: Mike Levine.

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