Let Ford (Mike Levine) know if you see dealer ADM on Mach-E

[Njia]

They've got the oval on the building, don't they?

They represent Ford, I didn't say they were Ford. That's how franchises work. They represent a brand, under license from the trademark owner.

You've heard of politics? Most dealers are MAJOR donors to political parties and elected representatives. That's why states like Michigan are deeply entrenched with the dealership model and will change to the Tesla model (i.e. OEM-direct) when hell freezes over. Moreover, the U.S. Gov made GM re-authorize dealerships after they had decided to close several during bankruptcy. Having worked with sales and marketing teams at the OEMs over the years, I can tell you that they are terrified of the dealers and the control they have. Yes, it's the "tail wagging the dog," but it's one hell of a strong tail.

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[mikenindorf]

In Denver, most ford dealerships are charging over MSRP. I quick search in Autotrader will show selling price over MSRP. How far do i have to drive to pay MSRP?
Is that a basic function of economics? (supply and demand)
Should Ford do what FCA did- When FCA found dealerships adding ADM to (was it the hellcats). Threaten to pull the dealerships right to sell FCA vehicles?

 

[JamieGeek]

Well that escalated quickly:
https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...erber-ford-mustang-mach-e-twitter/4792479001/

 

[machefan]

Well that escalated quickly:
https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...erber-ford-mustang-mach-e-twitter/4792479001/

popcorn time as trutolife would say.

 

[scubauke]

Most of the dealerships in Southern California continue to show there unabated greed with over the top adm or required add-ons. Gordon Gekko would be so proud. How these dealers and gm's sleep at night is beyond me. Just refuse to pay it.

 

[EVS]

Most of the dealerships in Southern California continue to show there unabated greed with over the top adm or required add-ons. Gordon Gekko would be so proud. How these dealers and gm's sleep at night is beyond me. Just refuse to pay it.

How do buyers sleep after snapping a good dealer discount to buy far below MSRP? Does anyone lose sleep for ripping off his dealer or the manufacturer by taking a big discount?
How do CEOs sleep selling fradulent FSD at high prices that kill people on the road and endanger many others?
How do drug companies sleep selling drugs at thousands of dollars a month that cost $10 to manufacture?
How do milions of scammers/robo callers calling people to harass them sleep without remorse?

ADM is nothing illegal like some of the above.. It is simply demand and supply. This is a capitalst country. MSRP is a manufacturer's suggested retail price. It's not MMRP (manufacturer's mandated retail price.).

 

[LagerHead]

At least with ADM the buyer gets a car for a price they willingly pay.

With FSD the buyer is willingly paying for a scam. They are promised a robotaxi and get L2 automation.

Actually, buyers of FSD are getting exactly what they paid for. Which is a few extra level 2 features immediately and FSD updates for the life of the car as they are developed and released to the fleet over time. The biggest value of buying FSD at purchase is it locks the price of FSD down, well below what it will rise to if and when FSD is approved for use. You have the option of paying $0 upfront and Tesla will happily download it to your car any time you want (but it will be at whatever the current price is). People who pay for it are making a bet that it will come to fruition and that the savings (and the additional Level 2 features) will be worth the risk that FSD is not fully complete before the car reaches it demise.

You are well within your rights to voice doubts as to whether it will ever be mature or whether FSD is even possible. Since no one has done it yet, that's fair game.

But calling it a "scam" is not helpful or accurate and if you had any expertise in the current state of the art of artificial intelligence, you would already know this. Tesla applies no pressure to buy it. All Tesla cars come with Autopilot enabled from the factory at no charge so most buyers don't feel the need to pay for FSD.

We can all do without the inflammatory and inaccurate comments.

 

[LagerHead]

I'd argue somewhat with the "willingly pay" part as I think most Tesla buyers honestly believe FSD is a thing or about to be. Shave while driving. One too many? Etc. But yeah it's a scam.

Please, comments like that just make you look silly or misinformed.

Tesla buyers know all the cars come with Autopilot at no extra charge and the vast majority of them don't pay more for FSD. Both my wife and I did but it only cost us $3k on one car and $4k on the other. We can easily afford it and were not scammed, we knew the specifics before we spent a single dollar.

Considering the performance, handling and range, I actually think we got great deals on both of cars, even with the additional FSD option. Calling FSD a scam just makes you look silly (if you understand the specifics). It would be a very rare Tesla buyer that didn't understand these basics before they bought the car. It's almost unheard of for someone to be that ignorant.

 

[LagerHead]

Well that escalated quickly:
https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...erber-ford-mustang-mach-e-twitter/4792479001/

Yeah, it's unfortunate.

Most of us are just EV fans and want to see all credible entries succeed. But a few people on either side want to inflame the situation, attempt to create rivalries and mock and jeer and, of course, that's not good for any of us.

Ford gets big kudos for finally releasing a credible EV. Now let's hope they can make them in ever-increasing numbers. Our cities will have fresher air and be quieter and have a higher quality of life all-around if they can succeed.

 

[Tpaguy]

Actually, buyers of FSD are getting exactly what they paid for. Which is a few extra level 2 features immediately and FSD updates for the life of the car as they are developed and released to the fleet over time. The biggest value of buying FSD at purchase is it locks the price of FSD down, well below what it will rise to if and when FSD is approved for use. You have the option of paying $0 upfront and Tesla will happily download it to your car any time you want (but it will be at whatever the current price is). People who pay for it are making a bet that it will come to fruition and that the savings (and the additional Level 2 features) will be worth the risk that FSD is not fully complete before the car reaches it demise.

You are well within your rights to voice doubts as to whether it will ever be mature or whether FSD is even possible. Since no one has done it yet, that's fair game.

But calling it a "scam" is not helpful or accurate and if you had any expertise in the current state of the art of artificial intelligence, you would already know this. Tesla applies no pressure to buy it. All Tesla cars come with Autopilot enabled from the factory at no charge so most buyers don't feel the need to pay for FSD.

We can all do without the inflammatory and inaccurate comments.

I much prefer the way Ford has handled the software/hardware for autonomous driving. Paying for the hardware upfront, with the understanding that software can be purchase if and when it is ready and approved for use. Both parties share risk then. Ford appears to be much more reasonable with this aspect. They also aren’t setting what appears to be false expectations that their vehicles can be used for revenue generation or as an investment vehicle.

I’m not really sure why Tesla owners pay upfront for something that has little chance of happening during the lifetime of their vehicle ownership. However, that is their right and Tesla does not force it on them, which is the right thing to do.

It does seem like a scam though when you can’t transfer it to another vehicle if your vehicle is in a crash and totaled - or you trade up to another Tesla and still haven’t been able to make full use of what you’ve prepaid for.

 

[shutterbug]

ADM is nothing illegal like some of the above.. It is simply demand and supply. This is a capitalst country. MSRP is a manufacturer's suggested retail price. It's not MMRP (manufacturer's mandated retail price.).

It's not illegal, but is there another industry where authorized resellers routinely try to charge more than MSRP?

 

[Tpaguy]

It's not illegal, but is there another industry where authorized resellers routinely try to charge more than MSRP?

Would people be arguing if the manufacturer set a rule for dealers that they also couldn’t discount a vehicle below MSRP? It sounds like people want a fixed price scheme but are they really ready for it? Even Tesla can’t stick to their own rules with that, despite trying to make it work.

 

[shutterbug]

Would people be arguing if the manufacturer set a rule for dealers that they also couldn’t discount a vehicle below MSRP?

I don't, but I definitely don't want to pay above it.

 

[machefan]

I would hope Ford will address this for all consumers, not just the ones who know better from the forum or twitter.

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