Little heat verified by data log

camdenlake

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Well my suspicions of something wrong with the heating system are now verified. I did some data logging this am and its not good. Curious if someone who lives in a cold area has the goodies to data log and can get one of a Mach-E with working heat. Waiting on a loaner from the dealer before I can drop it off. Added 2nd pic showing HV battery temp. @Ford Motor Company please help.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Little heat verified by data log cold data log 1


Ford Mustang Mach-E Little heat verified by data log cold data log 1-2
 
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Nklem

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This is great data showing something is wrong. I commented on FB. Please let us know what the dealer says and if Ford is looking, several people have this issue!
 
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camdenlake

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This is great data showing something is wrong. I commented on FB. Please let us know what the dealer says and if Ford is looking, several people have this issue!
Yes I will be sure to update both locations.

Josh
 

emperor-kebab

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camdenlake

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Motomax

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Idk 15degrees when it’s -25 doesn’t sound too crazy, am I missing something?
In those temps the car will prioritize battery warming over cabin warming. Try turning recirc on.
 

breeves002

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I do not believe this data necessarily indicates a hardware problem. I believe it is software and hardware design. The heater is running at full blast the entire time in your data except for a dip where you appear to floor the car.

To me it appears Fords heating strategy is to heat the battery first to maintain 0ÂșF (or higher), then heat the cabin. Note that it always is "heating the cabin" but the coolant temp is brought down a ton by the cold battery.

In your graph it shows that it heats the cabin at first then starts pumping the circuit with the cold water in the battery to try to heat the battery. The heater is too small to maintain a high water temp for the battery and cabin so you get heat to the cabin.

Two possible fixes. Larger heater would be the first, second fix is Ford has to maintain a higher heater core temp by either opening the battery coolant valve less or running the pump at a slower speed to keep the water temp higher in the heater core coolant loop.

When you hit max defrost does it get hot? Just curious, this is something I haven't tried. I would think the logic would then shut off battery heating to defrost the windows.
 

breeves002

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Idk 15degrees when it’s -25 doesn’t sound too crazy, am I missing something?
In those temps the car will prioritize battery warming over cabin warming. Try turning recirc on.
His issue is defrost. Recirc will make it worse. Can't drive if you can't see out of the windows...
 
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camdenlake

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Idk 15degrees when it’s -25 doesn’t sound too crazy, am I missing something?
In those temps the car will prioritize battery warming over cabin warming. Try turning recirc on.
Well for a 65,000$ car i expect it to have heat that works. And it never made 15deg for more than a couple min then started to drop and continued to drop. Recirc in -20 or greater causes frost on the windshield fairly quick and does turn it self off. Do you live in an area that gets a real winter??
 
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camdenlake

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I do not believe this data necessarily indicates a hardware problem. I believe it is software and hardware design. The heater is running at full blast the entire time in your data except for a dip where you appear to floor the car.

To me it appears Fords heating strategy is to heat the battery first to maintain 0ÂșF (or higher), then heat the cabin. Note that it always is "heating the cabin" but the coolant temp is brought down a ton by the cold battery.

In your graph it shows that it heats the cabin at first then starts pumping the circuit with the cold water in the battery to try to heat the battery. The heater is too small to maintain a high water temp for the battery and cabin so you get heat to the cabin.

Two possible fixes. Larger heater would be the first, second fix is Ford has to maintain a higher heater core temp by either opening the battery coolant valve less or running the pump at a slower speed to keep the water temp higher in the heater core coolant loop.

When you hit max defrost does it get hot? Just curious, this is something I haven't tried. I would think the logic would then shut off battery heating to defrost the windows.
The dip is when I turned the car on. Prior to that it I caught a bit of the preconditioning. Max defrost does not help that i have noticed. The drop occours as I start driving so somthing is wrong with either this car or the design. I think its the car as some other reports folks are in as cold or colder and say they get good hot air. The vents never produce hot air unless its fairly warm outside.
 

breeves002

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The dip is when I turned the car on. Prior to that it I caught a bit of the preconditioning. Max defrost does not help that i have noticed. The drop occours as I start driving so somthing is wrong with either this car or the design. I think its the car as some other reports folks are in as cold or colder and say they get good hot air. The vents never produce hot air unless its fairly warm outside.
Got it. So we see cabin preconditioning happening. I found another picture of your data with HVB temp in it and noticed what I've seen where it preconditions the pack to 10ÂșC. Then it will do everything it can to maintain that temperature even while driving.

I believe it is a software/too small heater issue. The heater runs the entire time. If valves weren't opening you'd see the power go down when the coolant got too hot. It never goes down.

It seems like 6kW should be enough to actually heat the battery pack though so it is a little confusing how the temp goes down but heater is running full blast. Keep us posted! I'm hoping something is actually broken but after seeing something similar happen to me at only -15ÂșC I'm thinking this is a software design issue/too small heater issue...
 
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camdenlake

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Got it. So we see cabin preconditioning happening. I found another picture of your data with HVB temp in it and noticed what I've seen where it preconditions the pack to 10ÂșC. Then it will do everything it can to maintain that temperature even while driving.

I believe it is a software/too small heater issue. The heater runs the entire time. If valves weren't opening you'd see the power go down when the coolant got too hot. It never goes down.

It seems like 6kW should be enough to actually heat the battery pack though so it is a little confusing how the temp goes down but heater is running full blast. Keep us posted! I'm hoping something is actually broken but after seeing something similar happen to me at only -15ÂșC I'm thinking this is a software design issue/too small heater issue...
Yeah i find heat gets weak progressively past -10c and terrible past -15c and totally useless past -20c
 

breeves002

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Yeah i find heat gets weak progressively past -10c and terrible past -15c and totally useless past -20c
One interesting test would be to cover the outside air temp sensor when its cooler than -20ÂșC and see if artificially raising that temp makes it work correctly. Put a hot hands around it lol. It may be a logic glitch down low. It's just weird they didn't find this issue in testing yet they say the car was tested to -40ÂșC ambient temps? Wild.
 
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camdenlake

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One interesting test would be to cover the outside air temp sensor when its cooler than -20ÂșC and see if artificially raising that temp makes it work correctly. Put a hot hands around it lol. It may be a logic glitch down low. It's just weird they didn't find this issue in testing yet they say the car was tested to -40ÂșC ambient temps? Wild.
Not sure that would work. There are 4 or so exterior temp sensors. I bet most cannot be gotten to. Plus the pack has one or more inside.
 
 




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