Mach-E charging with off grid inverter power?

SimS

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I'm wondering if the current charger solutions available for the Mach-E are sensitive to modified sine wave power vs pure sine wave. I have an off grid power location that uses a modified sine wave inverter. Has anybody run across any specs that specify one way or another? Thanks

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quitepossibly

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The charger is built into the car. The EVSE is really just a power cord that tells the car how much power it can draw.
 

phidauex

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The charger built into the car will probably work on a modified sine wave inverter, but it will be hard to get a confirmation of that until you actually try it, I doubt it is a common request. However, the old cordless tool chargers that have trouble on modified sine wave inverters are much simpler circuits than the chargers in EVs, so hopefully they will handle it well.

The bigger question is if you really want to charge from your offgrid system - unless you have a very powerful system you'll probably be limited to the 15A charger which is very slow, and unless you have a very large offgrid system, the car probably has dramatically more storage than your home. Do you know how many kWhs you have offgrid?
 

ajmartineau

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I have seen a few YouTubers trying to charge from a generator. They have issues with grounding and modified sine waves. I would recommend searching for an EVSE that will work for you as a back-up if the MME's supplied EVSE. If the MME inboard "charger" doesn't work, you'll have to get another inverter.
In your situation, I would try to take a test drive home to make sure it worked before I signed on that dotted line.
 


OP
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SimS

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I have seen a few YouTubers trying to charge from a generator. They have issues with grounding and modified sine waves. I would recommend searching for an EVSE that will work for you as a back-up if the MME's supplied EVSE. If the MME inboard "charger" doesn't work, you'll have to get another inverter.
In your situation, I would try to take a test drive home to make sure it worked before I signed on that dotted line.
OP here. I'm not going to use off grid power to charge the MME on a regular basis. One location I may visit has off grid power only. I was just curious if there may be an issue. It seems that it may be a problem so I will not depend on any off grid charging. Thanks for the info.

SimS
 

ajmartineau

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I hope it does work without issue. That would give us all more options.
 

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I'm wondering if the current charger solutions available for the Mach-E are sensitive to modified sine wave power vs pure sine wave. I have an off grid power location that uses a modified sine wave inverter. Has anybody run across any specs that specify one way or another? Thanks

SimS
Let us know what you discover.

Chargers are prolly optimized for a pure sine wave, and if the modified sine wave has a lot of higher frequency harmonics (it's more square wave looking), the efficiency of the charger would likely take a hit. You would have to pour in more power than for a pure sine wave to get the same power into the battery.
 

CHeil402

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What is the total harminc distortion (THD) of the off-grid inverter? This is the same issue that you might see operating off a generator. If the THD is low (~5%) like an inverter generator I wouldn't expect any issues, but if it's more like ~25% like what some standard generators do, then there might be some push back from the onboard inverter.
 

ChasingCoral

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Ford should definitely test this using the F-150 Hybrid
 

ChasingCoral

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You can definitely charge your Mach-e with an F-150 that has an onboard generator.
Right. I forgot all about that picture (just reposted on the engineer in Mexico thread)
Ford Mustang Mach-E Mach-E charging with off grid inverter power? Screen Shot 2021-01-27 at 9.10.57 PM
 

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Ok, would like someone with more electrical knowledge than me to reply and this could help other EV users. Currently trying to get my Champion 3650/ 4550 generator to charge 240v/ 30 amps to my Mach E with the Ford Mobile charger. It appears to not be working- but also not showing any errors and doesn't pop the breakers on the generator. Doing this, prior to plugging the charger to the car, the mobile charger LED turns blue after it boots. When attempting to charge, the Mach E also appears to be happy. It flashes the port ring as it is charging- but after 20 minutes on the generator- no % or miles have been added. I have used this method with my 240v circuit in my house and my Mach e successfully charges. Now to add another tidbit to this story- I once ran out of battery a 1/4 mile from home. Using this mobile charger in the 120v- the car charged as designed from this generator. I needed a couple minutes and had plenty of battery to get home (it oddly jumped to like 5% in a couple of minutes on the same generator at 120). As the guys above posted, is this proving the THD of the generator is the problem and too high? Does THD for 240 play a bigger role than at 120? My battery today was at 75%. After commuting tomorrow and having the battery under 20%, I may try the generator again. Would a different brand charger make a difference or is this something built into the Mach E? Here is my generator THD value:

"Champion portable generators will output an industry standard total harmonic distortion (THD) rating of about 12%-20% depending on load applied. They will produce a sine wave, not a modified or square wave. This is perfectly acceptable for running common commodities found in your home such as TVs, computers, your appliances, etc.

THD is a measure of the deviation of a sine wave from a "perfect" sine wave. All electricity, including line electricity, has measurable THD.

If you have a specific item that requires less than 5% THD such as a UPS style battery backup, a pellet stove, or high efficiency furnace control board, we recommend purchasing a Champion Inverter Generator (sizes from 1600W to 3500W); Champion DH Series Open Frame Inverter (sizes from 3500W to 8750W) or a Champion Home Standby Generator (range from 8.5KW to 14KW); all units provide a less than 5% THD.

Please consult your specific appliance manufacturer to determine if the appliance requires low THD (less than 5%) to operate properly.
"
 
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DYohn

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I'm wondering if the current charger solutions available for the Mach-E are sensitive to modified sine wave power vs pure sine wave. I have an off grid power location that uses a modified sine wave inverter. Has anybody run across any specs that specify one way or another? Thanks

SimS
My solar array uses Enphase inverters and batteries, and the MME can charge through a Juicebox off-grid from the system just fine.
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