Mach-E EPA Ratings Revealed in Window Sticker!

[EVer]

The EPA figures are one thing, the actual range difference might be something else.

"Actual" range is an interesting concept. What defines it? For a given car, it's a function of initial state of charge, driving style, and, importantly, the route taken. That is why for the sake of comparison, standard "routes" are taken.

Tests wherein a bunch of cars are driven along the same route at roughly the same speeds at the same time until they can't continue are probably indicative of real world differences, but not necessarily as some cars are tuned better for certain environments than others.

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[dbsb3233]

"Actual" range is an interesting concept. What defines it? For a given car, it's a function of initial state of charge, driving style, and, importantly, the route taken. That is why for the sake of comparison, standard "routes" are taken.

Tests wherein a bunch of cars are driven along the same route at roughly the same speeds at the same time until they can't continue are probably indicative of real world differences, but not necessarily as some cars are tuned better for certain environments than others.

All true. But I think for most people, it's not about beating another model head-to-head, it's about practical range where they need it. And for the vast majority, that's on highways at high speed. Most BEV owners will charge at home, except on road trips. And for most, daily home range is plenty. If you're driving far enough to use up a full charge, it usually means you're going far enough to use highways to get there.

So to me, the "actual range" metric that matters is range between refuels on typical interstates, at a mostly constant 70-80 MPH. In average weather, climate control use, etc.

 

[malba2366]

All true. But I think for most people, it's not about beating another model head-to-head, it's about practical range where they need it. And for the vast majority, that's on highways at high speed. Most BEV owners will charge at home, except on road trips. And for most, daily home range is plenty.

So to me, the "actual range" metric that matters is range between refuels on typical interstates, at a mostly constant 70-80 MPH. In average weather, climate control use, etc.

Very true. I think the actual range will be very close to EPA...most other manufacturers who don't use aggressive multipliers on their EPA scores have shown this (Porsche, Hyundai, Audi,Jaguar)

 

[dbsb3233]

Very true. I think the actual range will be very close to EPA...most other manufacturers who don't use aggressive multipliers on their EPA scores have shown this (Porsche, Hyundai, Audi,Jaguar)

Other manufacturers don't tend to take advantage of the formulas as much as Tesla does, but they still tend to see significant range loss at high speed. Just not as much.

https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32603216/ev-range-explained/

 

[TheLight75]

"Actual" range is an interesting concept. What defines it? For a given car, it's a function of initial state of charge, driving style, and, importantly, the route taken. That is why for the sake of comparison, standard "routes" are taken.

Tests wherein a bunch of cars are driven along the same route at roughly the same speeds at the same time until they can't continue are probably indicative of real world differences, but not necessarily as some cars are tuned better for certain environments than others.

You’re forgetting ambient temperature. That is also an integral part of the range calculus.

 

[Nak]

Very true. I think the actual range will be very close to EPA...most other manufacturers who don't use aggressive multipliers on their EPA scores have shown this (Porsche, Hyundai, Audi,Jaguar)

Not so much Hyundai and Jaguar according to C/D

Other manufacturers don't tend to take advantage of the formulas as much as Tesla does, but they still tend to see significant range loss at high speed. Just not as much.

https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32603216/ev-range-explained/

Hmmm. Tesla seems to be middle of the pack. Here's that chart just boiled down to actual range/EPA range expressed as a percentage, and just the latest models shown. I'm not including the BMW because 90 miles range is a joke.


Audi 91%
Nissan Leaf 84%
Model S 81%
Bolt 76%
Kia 76%
Model 3 74%
Jaguar 73%
Hyundai 62%

Let's put the list in order of real world range and only include those cars with a useable range of at least 200 miles. I'm looking forward to the Mach-e being included on this list.

Model S 270
Model 3 230

 

[Beholden]

Maybe because in most of videos I've seen they were comparing Mach E with Model Y? And now, when the range is finally out, we suddenly start comparing Ford with a lesser mileage model? I see the Mach E efficiency is a main reason Tesla's community will have a right not to see it as a real competitor, and for quite some time. Why so many of us are trying to close eyes on that fact? I ordered Mach E, btw, also because of the look and because of not being able to tolerate so many Teslas around here . But the look is and will always be subjective, the numbers (range, effectiveness) - are always objective. And yes, I just wanna be an owner of the best EV in the World - that's why I am complaining

It’s probably due to heavier frame on the Mach E. What is the weight difference between the two? Also, since the Y is full of Mattel hard plastic and tape from Walmart, it’s probably lighter there as well.

 

[Beholden]

But that was always to be expected. Right? Tesla is the efficiency leader but it comes at the cost of other things that matter to many. We all chose the Mach E because we are willing to sacrafice some range for style, comfort and a better driving experience. At least those are my reasons.

What is your proof that Tesla is the efficiency leader? From what I’ve read they take advantage of an option to use a higher percentage when computing their mileage. Other manufacturers don’t, thus the 20-30% real world discrepancies in testing. Plus the use light frames, which Ford will switch to when they go high volume.

 

[EVer]

You’re forgetting ambient temperature. That is also an integral part of the range calculus.

Yes, the systems which maintain battery temperature certainly affect range as well. Maintaining cabin temperature I would categorize with driving style.

 

[engnrng]

What part of the world do you live in? The Kona does have degradation but it’s less noticeable due to a large buffer. Your post sounds like needing AC is far more common For you than needing heat. In my area (New England), I average 2.5 mi/kWH in the winter (avg 34F). Generating heat taxes the battery far more than generating AC.

As it says on my profile when I post, I am located in SoCal, so of course I ordered a California Rt 1. Yes, I am sure I will get longer average range than others living in colder locations, but I do see freezing temps for a couple of months starting in January since I live in the coastal mountains. Those mornings, I do use the seat heater on my Kona, but have only used the cabin heater (on Driver Only setting) a couple of times. I use the ventilated seat cooling over half the time. On the Kona forum, the consensus is that the 64 kWh is all the BMS allows. On my way down the hill if I have inadvertently charged L2 to 100%, I get a notice on the dash display that "Regen is not available, Battery is full", and only have my friction brakes. After a mile downhill, there is a short level stretch where I usually accelerate hard for a few seconds, which provides me enough head room for general coasting regen braking to resume. I agree with you on your last sentence, based on 5 years with a CMAX and 18 months with the Kona Electric. I wish I had the heat pump in my Kona like they do in Canada. I must say also, that even my 2004 Prius sometimes lost regen when the hybrid battery became full on a long downhill and turned the combustion engine into an air compressor at high RPM to dissipate the excess potential energy. Lots of strategies for BMS - I look forward to learning more about the present Ford approach.

 

[engnrng]

Other manufacturers don't tend to take advantage of the formulas as much as Tesla does, but they still tend to see significant range loss at high speed. Just not as much.

https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32603216/ev-range-explained/

Never had much respect for C/D regarding EV's. Their opening sentence on this article is: "When it comes to electric vehicles, range is the all-important stat." I agree this is certainly THE stat for those who have not owned and operated an electric vehicle, such as writers and editors at C/D! Actual EV owners have their own value for this stat that is important to them. For some, 100 miles is plenty the way they use their cars. Ask tens of thousands of Leaf owners. For others, 200 miles is plenty for the occasional out of town trip. For still others, maybe 300 miles is not nearly enough, particularly if they live in an apartment or condo and do not have control over their personal charge station. It is true that range has become THE stat for automotive reporters and many others who are looking at EV's as potential daily drivers and have never owned one before. I am generalizing, of course, and apologize in advance to the many posters on this forum that spend a great deal of time searching for the 1 statement to disagree with. Since I want to go to the airport and return on one charge, my happy threshold is about 200 miles. To me, THE most important parameters in my buying decision put range way down on the list if my minimum is met. I find this to be true of most other EV enthusiasts I talk with. To many of them, speed of recharge is more important than range, but only if they travel long distances from home a couple of times a month. Another comment: My Kona spends a great deal of time at 75 mph and more and I have never seen a range under about 240. Where did they get a number like 160? I am sure they feel justified, but did they set the tire pressures at 40 psi like I do?

 

[SnBGC]

What is your proof that Tesla is the efficiency leader? From what I’ve read they take advantage of an option to use a higher percentage when computing their mileage. Other manufacturers don’t, thus the 20-30% real world discrepancies in testing. Plus the use light frames, which Ford will switch to when they go high volume.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/topten.jsp

Bigger number wins.

 

[timbop]

Never had much respect for C/D regarding EV's. Their opening sentence on this article is: "When it comes to electric vehicles, range is the all-important stat." I agree this is certainly THE stat for those who have not owned and operated an electric vehicle, such as writers and editors at C/D! Actual EV owners have their own value for this stat that is important to them. For some, 100 miles is plenty the way they use their cars. Ask tens of thousands of Leaf owners. For others, 200 miles is plenty for the occasional out of town trip. For still others, maybe 300 miles is not nearly enough, particularly if they live in an apartment or condo and do not have control over their personal charge station. It is true that range has become THE stat for automotive reporters and many others who are looking at EV's as potential daily drivers and have never owned one before. I am generalizing, of course, and apologize in advance to the many posters on this forum that spend a great deal of time searching for the 1 statement to disagree with. Since I want to go to the airport and return on one charge, my happy threshold is about 200 miles. To me, THE most important parameters in my buying decision put range way down on the list if my minimum is met. I find this to be true of most other EV enthusiasts I talk with. To many of them, speed of recharge is more important than range, but only if they travel long distances from home a couple of times a month. Another comment: My Kona spends a great deal of time at 75 mph and more and I have never seen a range under about 240. Where did they get a number like 160? I am sure they feel justified, but did they set the tire pressures at 40 psi like I do?

Your answer, which probably invalidates the whole article since they so cavalierly mention SOME tests at near freezing:

 

[DBC]

Never had much respect for C/D regarding EV's. Their opening sentence on this article is: "When it comes to electric vehicles, range is the all-important stat." I agree this is certainly THE stat for those who have not owned and operated an electric vehicle, such as writers and editors at C/D! Actual EV owners have their own value for this stat that is important to them.

Truer words were never written. LOL Range is not that big of a deal, though having said that I got the extended battery like you. But more walking the walk I went with AWD because ... my wife told me to. (Absolutely true).

I'm way more excited about the 150 kW charging. Faster charging enables longer trips. More range not so much.

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