Mach-E Hands-Free Active Drive Assist PRICING Announced, OTA Update Available in Q3 2021

[eastern refugee]

Yes and No:

If you are on cruse control you also have lane centering:

I already have this on my 2018 Edge Sport: though technically not "hands free" in reality for short periods of time, up to 30 seconds, it is: while in adaptive cruise control you can take your hands off the wheel, reach for a bottle of water for example, open it, take a drink and the car will remain in the lane. The adaptive cruise control also has distance control so braking and acceleration is also done automatically.

Later on, (mid 2021?) if you have purchased the hardware, there will be OTA update to make the adaptive cruise control legally "hands free" on certain roads.

Hope this helps.

thanks. I feel that the lane keeping system is simply ok but needs to be much better.

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[Nak]

In some ways it's unfair to compare these hands-free systems to what Tesla offers with FSD since FSD is not a hands-free system.

Sigh. RTFT.

 

[Woeo]

The hardware prep kit necessary for Assisted Driving is standard on Premium LR AWD. Software will be $600 when available later. Early MME buyers will receive $100 credit at time of car purchase, making the software’s true cost $500.

 

[Nak]

The point being:

Nak said:
There is a reason every airliner in current service is equipped with an autopilot that will disconnect immediately if the pilot makes a control input.

Yet the MCAS equipped 737-8/9 prove just the opposite point you made.

p.s. the AD does not require three AOAs.

Seriously, you're going to have to help me out with your logic here. First off, How does MCAS prove me wrong???? Second, maybe study up on MCAS as your post shows you don't know enough about it to have a discussion on it. I get it, you've watched a couple of youtube videos and all of a sudden you know more than a professional Pilot with almost 40 years commercial and military experience.

I've not read the Airworthiness Directive for the 737-MAX. I do know that Boeing added a second AOA sensor to the system, which is still insufficient in my professional opinion. The system is in fact critical to the safe operation of the aircraft, and if one AOA sensor fails--greater than 5.5 degrees disagreement with the flaps retracted--the system deactivates. That's great if you're not in a stall at the time. If you are in a stall, then you really, really need that system. A third AOA sensor allows one sensor to fail and still retain normal system operation. I also know that my buddies who have flown and will fly the MAX are not even a teeny bit happy with the failure to include a third AOA sensor. But you probably know more than them too, don't you @First Edition ?

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Yet the MCAS equipped 737-8/9 prove just the opposite point you made.

The 737 Max MCAS system is not part of the MAX autopilot system. The autopilot system was not engaged during the ill-fated Lion Air flight.

I'd not press the issue regarding Airbus's civil aircraft design philosophy and criteria with @Nak. I certainly wouldn't, but I have the background to know better. There's not much to be gained from the comparisons anyway. And yes, every autopilot system on any airliner disconnect upon any pilot control input whether that's Boeing, Douglas (now Boeing), or Airbus.

While there are a few similarities between autopilots on an airliner and hands free driving (regardless of its trade name), they're not directly comparable. Both require a great deal of monitoring to utilize them in a safe manner, and that's about the extent of it.

 

[First Edition]

While there are a few similarities between autopilots on an airliner and hands free driving (regardless of its trade name), they're not directly comparable. Both require a great deal of monitoring to utilize them in a safe manner, and that's about the extent of it.

Totally agree, that’s why the whole premise of comparing automation in vehicles to automation in transport category aircraft is flawed.

 

[Nak]

Your original post on Tesla’s ’full self driving’ automation system made the point that in aviation automation can always be overridden by the PF. MCAS is automation that in its original form could not ultimately be overridden by the crew, hence the comment. As a side note, since we’ve been using the term autopilot colloquially, MCAS can not be activated when the autopilot is engaged.

Additionally, CWS allows the PF to maneuver the aircraft while the autopilot is still engaged. This is the mode most similar to the 'collaborative' part of ADAS systems that EuroNCAP testing studies.

Trying to compare an unregulated driver assistance system to a heavily regulated Automated Flight Control system, is a bit like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Where to start. Let's see, how about I start with you have zero understanding of the systems involved?

My original post did not imply what you say. Either you need to work on your reading comprehension or study up on the systems you seem to think you know. (You don't.) My point was this: When you override an aircraft autopilot, the autopilot disengages. This is done so that there is no confusion as to who or what is controlling the aircraft. Confusion of this type can and has led to numerous deaths. It is my professional opinion that "collaborative driving" could lead to the same confusion at some point. It is all too possible that a driver might believe the automation is engaged--when it is not--resulting in a crash.

CWS (Control Wheel Steering) is not an autopilot. It is a flight control system that is similar to the Airbus Fly By Wire system. I'd try and explain it to you, but there isn't room here, and frankly I don't think you'd understand anyway. Suffice it to say it is not an autopilot, does not act like an autopilot and will not make control inputs that haven't been commanded by the pilot. The commands work differently than control position commands, but you won't understand that anyway. CWS is not "collaborative," it does precisely what the pilot commands.

MCAS is also not an autopilot system, but your example still proves my point. The pilots were unaware of the system and not trained in it's use. This confusion of who/what was making control inputs lead to two tragic deaths. This reinforces my original point. That said, I don't have time to explain to you why MCAS is needed, why it acts like it does, what was wrong with it's implementation, or what--in my opinion--is wrong with the current fix. And again, you wouldn't understand any of it anyway.

If we're seeking to find an equivalent in the automotive world for MCAS, the closest thing I can think of would be a lane keeping system that "nudges" the steering wheel if you start drifting out of the lane. Please note that the system doesn't take over flying the aircraft or driving the automobile. It simply nudges. There is no confusion as to who is in control. (At least there shouldn't be if the pilot/driver is aware of the system and trained in it's use.)

BTW, your use of abbreviations does not make you sound like you know what you're talking about, all it does it make you seem like a Jack^%$ who is trying to impress others with your "knowledge." Why not use "pilot" instead of an abbreviation for "Pilot Flying?" That way everyone reading would better understand the conversation. (Not to mention you don't even seem to understand what "PF" means.) The mere fact that you think watching a few Youtube videos gives you the same understanding of aviation systems as a professional pilot with decades of military and airline experience says a lot about you. You don't know enough to even know what you don't know, and you for some reason you seem to have a hard time grasping that.

 

[Nak]

With the Mach E, there is no fighting the automation like on the Tesla.

You really seem to be a fan of posting on subjects you're completely ignorant of. There is no "fighting the automation" on a Tesla. If I make a steering input, the autopilot disengages. As it should.

 

[First Edition]

You really seem to be a fan of posting on subjects you're completely ignorant of. There is no "fighting the automation" on a Tesla. If I make a steering input, the autopilot disengages. As it should.

Professional safety organizations like EuroNCAP and PAVE as well as professional reviewers can provide unbiased input on ADAS systems.


Regarding CoPilot 360

"One of the highlight standout features of this system is how you exit the system"

Regarding AutoPilot

"When you come out of the system it really locks you in there so you have to put a ton of force on the wheel and then it breaks the Autopilot system and then the car darts on the lane change, and I actually find that to be quite dangerous.

18:30


Kudos to Ford for living up to the EuroNCAP and PAVE safety goals and designing a safe, refined and elegant solution.

 

[KAustin]

@Nak , and @First Edition (to a lesser extent), I can honestly say that your continue combative and insulting comments take away from the enjoyment the rest of us have in this forum. If you guys or anyone else want to argue and insult about petty differences of option, please do so by DMing each other. We don't need to be subjected to the BS.

It isn't just you two, but there have been others that have been less than civil over the past two or three months. Sometimes it isn't just as simple as hitting the "ignore" button. The point is, none of us should have to. Be better.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

It isn't just you two, but there have been others that have been less than civil over the past two or three months. Sometimes it isn't just as simple as hitting the "ignore" button. The point is, none of us should have to. Be better.

sorry. there's only so many tickets I can write against myself.

 

[KAustin]

sorry. there's only so many tickets I can write against myself.

And you call yourself the "post police." smh haha

 

[eastern refugee]

@Nak , and @First Edition (to a lesser extent), I can honestly say that your continue combative and insulting comments take away from the enjoyment the rest of us have in this forum. If you guys or anyone else want to argue and insult about petty differences of option, please do so by DMing each other. We don't need to be subjected to the BS.

It isn't just you two, but there have been others that have been less than civil over the past two or three months. Sometimes it isn't just as simple as hitting the "ignore" button. The point is, none of us should have to. Be better.

EXTREMELY well said. Thank you!!!!

 

[First Edition]

@Nak , and @First Edition ...If you guys or anyone else want to argue and insult about petty differences of opinion, please do so by DMing each other

I wouldn’t call the differences between how ADAS is implemented in AutoPilot and CoPilot petty, it’s actually a very substantive and a fundamentally different approach.

No worries about other’s personal insults, I’ve lived amongst the Teslarati for years.

 

[Nak]

@Nak , and @First Edition (to a lesser extent), I can honestly say that your continue combative and insulting comments take away from the enjoyment the rest of us have in this forum. If you guys or anyone else want to argue and insult about petty differences of option, please do so by DMing each other. We don't need to be subjected to the BS.

It isn't just you two, but there have been others that have been less than civil over the past two or three months. Sometimes it isn't just as simple as hitting the "ignore" button. The point is, none of us should have to. Be better.

Point taken. My apologies to the entire group.

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