Mach-E Owners Review a Tesla Model Y

[Mirak]

Great write-up. The other point that I would give Tesla over Ford is the knowledge base of the MME at their service centers. I have a MME FE, and several Ford dealerships in the Kansas City area. The ordering process was terrible(I ended up canceling my order and getting one already in stock in St Louis). And the other day when I called about installing the dash cam on the Ford accessory page, they were unsure if they could install it or not and then they asked me if it came with instructions.

I'm sure the dealerships will get better and more knowledgeable about the MME, but for now it's a little disheartening that I can't get some simple questions answered.

Agree. But like the software and public charging, Ford’s knowledge base will improve. There’s no OTA update for the MY’s physical shortcomings.

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[Mach-E VLOG]

Agreed on both counts. But it would be nice if Ford improved our ability to use the front and 360 cams when parking. They are way too slow to engage. That’s one of my top improvement requests.

Definitely. What bugs me is that the cameras will turn on as I go in the garage, then once I cross the entrance, they turn off. I have to manually turn them back on so I can see how close I am to the back wall. I also want a quick access button and make sure they stay on for a bit longer than they do.

 

[aberberich]

Hey Patrick!

Just wanted to say how much I really have enjoy your and liv's blog. It was actually one of the "driving" factors (ha ha) in convincing me to pull the plug on ordering a Mach-E a month ago. Thanks for all the videos and coverage you've provided!

 

[machefordy]

We both have full time jobs and this is just a hobby. To be honest, we probably wouldn't have started a channel if not for the pandemic. We're both still working from home and when we started it last July, we were really just trying to keep ourselves occupied and take advantage of the extra time we had by not commuting.

Now, it has developed into a bit more than we expected. It can soak up a lot of time, but it is still a fun hobby. This video, took us a day to film, and then about 3 weeks to edit in my spare time.

Great to hear and watch your videos but again that’s a lot of free time. Keep it up.

 

[AllenXS]

Hey Patrick!

Just wanted to say how much I really have enjoy your and liv's blog. It was actually one of the "driving" factors (ha ha) in convincing me to pull the plug on ordering a Mach-E a month ago. Thanks for all the videos and coverage you've provided!

You have ordered one now though?

 

[SbN]

Agree. But like the software and public charging, Ford’s knowledge base will improve. There’s no OTA update for the MY’s physical shortcomings.

Totally agree. I just thought they would try to get their dealerships a little more prepared for the MME and the ins/outs. Granted Tesla has only 1 "kind" of car to deal with so their service centers and sales people are going to be extremely knowledgeable.

I'm completely happy with my MME purchase. Just thought I'd add to the pro/con list based on my experience.

 

[CHeil402]

First of all, the CCS network is catching up fast and beats Tesla in many places. Just around here in Colorado, there are more CCS chargers than Tesla SuperChargers. There is a ton of money being invested in the CCS platform that will be used by every manufacturer that isn’t Tesla.I’m willing to bet that over the time I own my Mach-E the CCS network will surpass the Tesla network.
I should also mention that I dislike proprietary systems. Tesla decided to go with a proprietary plug on their cars to make it a selling point. On European Teslas, they now come with a CCS charging port. Tesla could do the same for their US cars and make their SuperChargers compatible with CCS but they haven’t.

While I fully dislike proprietary systems... you do have to take this one with a grain of salt. Tesla has the SuperCharger connector because there was no CCS standard at the time. They were EV pioneers in that space; there wasn't a connector, so they made one. Fast forward to the EU situation where they use CCS is because EU made that mandatory much like they're trying to end the Lightning connector in favor of USB.

I agree that it would be best for everyone if Tesla's in the US also switched to CCS, but that would be a big initial capital cost to make that switch and I don't see it happening anytime soon without regulation. Regardless, just like Rivian and EU Tesla, they can still use CCS but limit the car brands that can use it, so it doesn't really solve the heart of the issue. I agree with all your comments and like the MME better (obviously), but this is one point where I don't fault Tesla quite as much simply due to the history of the issue.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/ask-an-electrical-engineer.4307/post-129025

 

[Eraser]

@Mach-E VLOG @Liv I watch your videos specifically because you're not professional car reviewers. I like to get professionals options as well, but I feel like some of their views can be a bit too critical for the everyday person. Non-professionals bring a more down to earth review without all the baggage of having reviewed several dozen cars in the past. I fall somewhere in the middle of the two groups but lean towards the non-professional.

For what its worth, I think you guys do a great job on your videos. I say keep doing what you're doing as long as you're having fun, listen to the constructive feedback and don't feed the trolls .

 

[cargo]

While I fully dislike proprietary systems... you do have to take this one with a grain of salt. Tesla has the SuperCharger connector because there was no CCS standard at the time. They were EV pioneers in that space; there wasn't a connector, so they made one. Fast forward to the EU situation where they use CCS is because EU made that mandatory much like they're trying to end the Lightning connector in favor of USB.

I agree that it would be best for everyone if Tesla's in the US also switched to CCS, but that would be a big initial capital cost to make that switch and I don't see it happening anytime soon without regulation. Regardless, just like Rivian and EU Tesla, they can still use CCS but limit the car brands that can use it, so it doesn't really solve the heart of the issue. I agree with all your comments and like the MME better (obviously), but this is one point where I don't fault Tesla quite as much simply due to the history of the issue.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/ask-an-electrical-engineer.4307/post-129025

I agree with the no standard at the beginning, but there is no reason they can't support 3rd party EV's with a dongle and a interface to purchase from the super charger.

 

[TheSteelRider]

While I fully dislike proprietary systems... you do have to take this one with a grain of salt. Tesla has the SuperCharger connector because there was no CCS standard at the time. They were EV pioneers in that space; there wasn't a connector, so they made one. Fast forward to the EU situation where they use CCS is because EU made that mandatory much like they're trying to end the Lightning connector in favor of USB.

I agree that it would be best for everyone if Tesla's in the US also switched to CCS, but that would be a big initial capital cost to make that switch and I don't see it happening anytime soon without regulation. Regardless, just like Rivian and EU Tesla, they can still use CCS but limit the car brands that can use it, so it doesn't really solve the heart of the issue. I agree with all your comments and like the MME better (obviously), but this is one point where I don't fault Tesla quite as much simply due to the history of the issue.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/ask-an-electrical-engineer.4307/post-129025

I will respectfully disagree, unless you have better sources than I could find.

The J1772 has been around since 2000 or thereabouts. CCS ("Combined Charging System") was in the works from about 2010 or thereabouts.

Meaning Tesla specifically chose to not get involved in the standard and specifically chose to go proprietary which makes one really wonder whether Elon really does want all other manufacturers to release and succeed in making EVs) when they were developing the Model S.

The Model S was released in 2012, and seven car makers (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen) agreed to introduce CCS in mid-2012 with Tesla conspicuously absent from that list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.

 

[CHeil402]

I will respectfully disagree, unless you have better sources than I could find.

The J1772 has been around since 2000 or thereabouts. CCS ("Combined Charging System") was in the works from about 2010 or thereabouts.

Meaning Tesla specifically chose to not get involved in the standard and specifically chose to go proprietary which makes one really wonder whether Elon really does want all other manufacturers to release and succeed in making EVs) when they were developing the Model S.

The Model S was released in 2012, and seven car makers (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen) agreed to introduce CCS in mid-2012 with Tesla conspicuously absent from that list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.

The first production Tesla was the Roadster which started sales in 2009, which means engineering R&D started prior to that. CCS really didn't become a full-fledged thing until 2012/2013, and even then it was really capped at 50 kW. 150 kW CCS standardization didn't happen until 2015 per your own sources whereas SuperCharging V1 was 150 kW in 2012.

Could Tesla have contributed to the development of CCS... yes. Could they have made a switch once it was more mature... yes. But at the same time, trying to get a product to market at the same time an industry standard is in its infancy where you don't have direct control over decision making isn't something to fault them for at the time.

To be honest, I'm more mad at Rivian than Tesla because they're starting a new proprietary network in the near future when the standards are existent and mature. Sure, it uses CCS, but it still is a walled garden system.

 

[TheSteelRider]

But at the same time, trying to get a product to market at the same time an industry standard is in its infancy where you don't have direct control over decision making isn't something to fault them for at the time.

Totally understand and appreciate this. Except, Elon specifically said these things in *2014* at the Model S launch in Europe,

https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...s-everyone-to-use-tesla-superchargers/372407/

At the British launch of the Tesla Model S this weekend, Musk said he is considering creating a standard Supercharger that could be interchangeable with other electric car providers. It would also allow other models to use existing Supercharger stations in the U.S.

If he _really_ wanted all EVs to share a network, at the time of this statement there _was_ an international standard _already_ that he could have used, or joined development with.

So, again, I agree with you that their Supercharger network is fantastic, and I also agree that Tesla needed to build their own network. I simply disagree that It had to be proprietary, especially given Elon's comments _at the time of Model S release_ claiming that he wanted everyone to use the same network. He is a hypocrite, plain and simple.

If you want to know why companies do things, follow the money. It's money in Tesla's pocket to have a proprietary network, it is not something they are doing out of kindness of their hearts or supposed desire for all automakers to get into the EV business.

 

[Eraser]

I will respectfully disagree, unless you have better sources than I could find.

The J1772 has been around since 2000 or thereabouts. CCS ("Combined Charging System") was in the works from about 2010 or thereabouts.

Meaning Tesla specifically chose to not get involved in the standard and specifically chose to go proprietary which makes one really wonder whether Elon really does want all other manufacturers to release and succeed in making EVs) when they were developing the Model S.

The Model S was released in 2012, and seven car makers (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen) agreed to introduce CCS in mid-2012 with Tesla conspicuously absent from that list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.

I think Tesla's long term plan was to roll their own charging network and proprietary connector in the hopes of getting other manufactures to license the technology from them. Not a bad plan from a business perspective. Apple has made billions on proprietary connectors and dongles for their devices for many years. They are the only smart phone company that still doesn't use standard USB-C connectors. Why would they when they can sell you their own proprietary cable, or have a 3rd party sell you a cable that they had to license from Apple.

I don't think Tesla will ever change to CCS unless they are mandated, but since they can use adapters it probably won't happen. On the public charger side the industry will overtake Tesla in the not too distant future if they maintain the current pace, after that it is somewhat of a moot point.

 

[Mach-E VLOG]

The first production Tesla was the Roadster which started sales in 2009, which means engineering R&D started prior to that. CCS really didn't become a full-fledged thing until 2012/2013, and even then it was really capped at 50 kW. 150 kW CCS standardization didn't happen until 2015 per your own sources whereas SuperCharging V1 was 150 kW in 2012.

Could Tesla have contributed to the development of CCS... yes. Could they have made a switch once it was more mature... yes. But at the same time, trying to get a product to market at the same time an industry standard is in its infancy where you don't have direct control over decision making isn't something to fault them for at the time.

To be honest, I'm more mad at Rivian than Tesla because they're starting a new proprietary network in the near future when the standards are existent and mature. Sure, it uses CCS, but it still is a walled garden system.

Didn't the original Roadster have a different charging connector compared to the current Teslas? And I think it was limited to 16kW charging. The first Tesla with the current SuperCharger connector was in fact the 2012 Model S.

 

[theo1000]

While I fully dislike proprietary systems... you do have to take this one with a grain of salt. Tesla has the SuperCharger connector because there was no CCS standard at the time. They were EV pioneers in that space; there wasn't a connector, so they made one. Fast forward to the EU situation where they use CCS is because EU made that mandatory much like they're trying to end the Lightning connector in favor of USB.
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/ask-an-electrical-engineer.4307/post-129025

This is not true at all. Some of use were there at the time driving an EV on a Charge standard. The CCS standard preprints were released in 2010. The first CCS DC fast charger was installed in 2013 IIRC about 6 months after the first Tesla DC chargers in late 2012. There was a time the TSLA engineers were part of the CCS deliberations.

The real issue was Mr Musk. He was convinced he knew better than the engineers, tried force his own standard and form factor pulled the Tesla engineering team out of the SAE that had issued the early pre-prints. Then just to prove a point he went out there spending money building a proprietary standard back when CCS was completely unfunded and was struggling to invest in the charge network. This is how rich puffed up head types behave, what's the word I'm looking for starts with A and ends with hole. There is no defending TSLA behavior through all of this.I firmly beleive that their behavior of always going their own way has delayed the development of the EV tech as 2 different systems competed across the supply chains in every single area.

Its only recently the TSLA tech has been largely pushed out in favor of relatively open supplier standards. Though purely because of TSLA the round cell vs flat pack battle continues. All of this slows things down and delays adoption.

I for one look forward to the day Mr Musk is gone from the head of TSLA so the company can rejoin the mainstream and actually make technology that the EV industry can use. Ultimately the EV machine has to become more and more of a commodity to get it cheap. There is way too much print wasted on a company that has produced almost no tech the wider industry uses.

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