Advertisement



DaveRuns

Banned
Banned
First Name
Dave
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
1,130
Reaction score
1,641
Location
Virginia
First Name
Dave
Vehicles
N/A
Country flag
I'd like a larger discount than X-Plan! X-Plan is my "settling" amount. :)

As for a license plate frame... I'd totally put it back on ONLY if I needed to bring the vehicle back to them for some reason. ;)
2 years ago I ran the Boston Marathon. I raised about $8,000 for charity. One of the ways I did that was agreeing to wear local business-branded T-shirts around town during my training runs. It was 'advertising' for them. I'd take pictures wearing their t-shirts during my runs and put them on social media. In return, they'd donate to my charity. Win-Win for everyone. So...by agreeing to place a small sticker on the back of the car, or by putting a license plate frame on it, perhaps they'd agree to come down from their $5K markup. Probably not :)
 

Barno

Active Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 17, 2020
Messages
41
Reaction score
67
Location
Long Island NY
First Name
Gary
Vehicles
Mach E Premium ER AWD
Country flag
understand totally what you are saying, which is why people hate the DEALER system so much. No body actually enjoys buying a car from a dealer, which is the crux of the problem.

I like shopping at Costco because of how I am treated. They change prices all the time based on their inventory but that doesn’t degrade the buying experience. It is the same with Amazon. I am a member of both entities and am treated that way.

Yet, when making the second highest dollar purchase (behind res estate) I hate the experience EVERY time. Doesn’t matter which brand. Why do you think the top minds out there are trying desperately to blow up the legacy systems of buying cars and homes?

Tesla has almost fully succeeded (yes, service and parts problems) and now sells 500k cars per year without dealers!!!

The same shakeout is going in in residential real estate. 6% commission to sell a house and almost as low customer satisfaction as dealers ?

The disrupters are out there and we all owe it to Elon Musk and others like him, like him or not. Ask the next generation (s) if they would rather buy from a dealer or their phone, and then ask them, how come? They will not accept: “ well, if they had more to sell, they would lower the price”. They will also not tolerate the dealer salesperson knowing barely anything about Mustang Mach E’s while they become expert buyers due to the forums and web information available at their fingertips.

Saturn was a noble failed experiment but that was before there was an internet. I have never bought a Ford partly because the dealers near me are awful and was going to buy a Tesla before the Mach E came along. I hope that the Mach E is so good that Ford can overcome the handicap of the dealer system.
 

macchiaz-o

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jonathan
Joined
Nov 25, 2019
Messages
3,168
Reaction score
6,397
Location
Valley of the Sun
First Name
Jonathan
Vehicles
human driven
Country flag
understand totally what you are saying, which is why people hate the DEALER system so much. No body actually enjoys buying a car from a dealer, which is the crux of the problem.

I like shopping at Costco because of how I am treated. They change prices all the time based on their inventory but that doesn’t degrade the buying experience. It is the same with Amazon. I am a member of both entities and am treated that way.

Yet, when making the second highest dollar purchase (behind res estate) I hate the experience EVERY time. Doesn’t matter which brand. Why do you think the top minds out there are trying desperately to blow up the legacy systems of buying cars and homes?

Tesla has almost fully succeeded (yes, service and parts problems) and now sells 500k cars per year without dealers!!!

The same shakeout is going in in residential real estate. 6% commission to sell a house and almost as low customer satisfaction as dealers ?

The disrupters are out there and we all owe it to Elon Musk and others like him, like him or not. Ask the next generation (s) if they would rather buy from a dealer or their phone, and then ask them, how come? They will not accept: “ well, if they had more to sell, they would lower the price”. They will also not tolerate the dealer salesperson knowing barely anything about Mustang Mach E’s while they become expert buyers due to the forums and web information available at their fingertips.

Saturn was a noble failed experiment but that was before there was an internet. I have never bought a Ford partly because the dealers near me are awful and was going to buy a Tesla before the Mach E came along. I hope that the Mach E is so good that Ford can overcome the handicap of the dealer system.
I was simply responding to your claim that, lowering prices by virtue of accepting x-plan members, results in larger amounts of positive word of mouth advertising and increased sales, as compared to charging prices above MSRP.

You are trying to package it into some other conversation about the competitive dealer model. As if Tesla wouldn't do exactly the same thing in an equivalent supply/demand situation.

Can you imagine that yesterday there were maybe TWO Mustang Mach-Es for sale to the general public in the entire DFW region, split across two different dealerships?

If you had one of the only two cars for sale in a large competitive region, do you think it'd be better to let people see and drive it, and maybe order one for themselves, or perhaps maybe drive away with some other car from the lot?

Or is it better to sell it now at slightly below MSRP, even though it'll leave you with nothing to show to anyone else for the rest of the day and until who knows how much longer?

Anyway...

I test drove a Model Y a few weeks ago. In my opinion, Tesla gave me a low offer for my trade in and an overpriced offer for purchasing their new car. The salespeople I spoke with wouldn't budge on either amount. And that's their purogative. But it means I won't be selling them my car or buying theirs. They exist in a competitive market with a lot of other options and I feel I am getting better value by exercising different options than what they presented.

This might be one of the reasons Saturn didn't make it. Let's see how Tesla changes its ways as it faces more BEV-specific competition in volume numbers.
 

Barno

Active Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 17, 2020
Messages
41
Reaction score
67
Location
Long Island NY
First Name
Gary
Vehicles
Mach E Premium ER AWD
Country flag
I was simply responding to your claim that, lowering prices by virtue of accepting x-plan members, results in larger amounts of positive word of mouth advertising and increased sales, as compared to charging prices above MSRP.

You are trying to package it into some other conversation about the competitive dealer model. As if Tesla wouldn't do exactly the same thing in an equivalent supply/demand situation.

Can you imagine that yesterday there were maybe TWO Mustang Mach-Es for sale to the general public in the entire DFW region, split across two different dealerships?

If you had one of the only two cars for sale in a large competitive region, do you think it'd be better to let people see and drive it, and maybe order one for themselves, or perhaps maybe drive away with some other car from the lot?

Or is it better to sell it now at slightly below MSRP, even though it'll leave you with nothing to show to anyone else for the rest of the day and until who knows how much longer?

Anyway...

I test drove a Model Y a few weeks ago. In my opinion, Tesla gave me a low offer for my trade in and an overpriced offer for purchasing their new car. The salespeople I spoke with wouldn't budge on either amount. And that's their purogative. But it means I won't be selling them my car or buying theirs. They exist in a competitive market with a lot of other options and I feel I am getting better value by exercising different options than what they presented.

This might be one of the reasons Saturn didn't make it. Let's see how Tesla changes its ways as it faces more BEV-specific competition in volume numbers.
IMO Saturn didn’t make it as the timing and technology wasn’t ready yet. The question is, when will all dealers go away, replaced by online ordering and an extensive service network, franchised or company owned? For most of the US, the answer is not soon enough.
 

Regularmache

Well-Known Member
First Name
Stephen
Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Messages
309
Reaction score
406
Location
US
First Name
Stephen
Vehicles
18 F150 Platinum, 18 Mustang GT PP2, 14 QX80
Occupation
Purchasing
Country flag
That's what I'm thinking, too. Plus there are too many remotely accessible functions. I might want remote start, you might want frunk open, etc.

I hope the app functions will be quick and easy to get to. I'm thinking of developing quick access tiles for Android if FordPass hasn't already implemented them in their app. But so for I haven't been successful in my requests for access to the connected vehicle APIs.
It's easy, here is a SS from my P
F150. CMax Plug in I could roll the windows down, open and shut hatch all in the App.

Screenshot_20210102-100801.jpg
 

ARK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
498
Reaction score
647
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicles
Mustang Mach E
Country flag
understand totally what you are saying, which is why people hate the DEALER system so much. No body actually enjoys buying a car from a dealer, which is the crux of the problem.

I like shopping at Costco because of how I am treated. They change prices all the time based on their inventory but that doesn’t degrade the buying experience. It is the same with Amazon. I am a member of both entities and am treated that way.

Yet, when making the second highest dollar purchase (behind res estate) I hate the experience EVERY time. Doesn’t matter which brand. Why do you think the top minds out there are trying desperately to blow up the legacy systems of buying cars and homes?

Tesla has almost fully succeeded (yes, service and parts problems) and now sells 500k cars per year without dealers!!!

The same shakeout is going in in residential real estate. 6% commission to sell a house and almost as low customer satisfaction as dealers ?

The disrupters are out there and we all owe it to Elon Musk and others like him, like him or not. Ask the next generation (s) if they would rather buy from a dealer or their phone, and then ask them, how come? They will not accept: “ well, if they had more to sell, they would lower the price”. They will also not tolerate the dealer salesperson knowing barely anything about Mustang Mach E’s while they become expert buyers due to the forums and web information available at their fingertips.

Saturn was a noble failed experiment but that was before there was an internet. I have never bought a Ford partly because the dealers near me are awful and was going to buy a Tesla before the Mach E came along. I hope that the Mach E is so good that Ford can overcome the handicap of the dealer system.
I agree with this. It’s like how everyone hated taxis before Uber came along. They were overpriced, hard to get, often reeked of cigarettes, and your driver might make an obnoxiously loud personal call or two all the way to the airport. Everyone hated it but we were all stuck until Uber started a business that was maybe not 100% legal based on protective taxi franchise laws, but yet really dropped prices and incentivized drivers to do better.

I hope the Tesla model is the beginning of the end for dealers. People should use dealers because they want to not because they have no choice because of legal barriers just like how taxi medallions really made it easy for taxi companies to provide garbage service before Uber came along.
 

timbop

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
3,141
Reaction score
6,084
Location
New Jersey
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E (CA RT1), 2016 Dodge Durango
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
Here's the problem: the online SALES model for simply vending commodity items works fairly well - until something goes wrong and SERVICE of some kind is needed. For commodity items that are relatively lightweight that "service" typically involves having to contact the vendor and arrange for the item to be sent somewhere for repairs or replacement. The consumer is simply left without having the item while the bidirectional shipping (and potential repair) time elapses. That's fine for toaster ovens and personal laptops, but cars are too expensive to ship and certainly too crucial for most people's lives for that low level of service to be acceptable. In other words the online SERVICE model is inappropriate for vehicles - the COST of the buying convenience is far outweighed by the EXPENSE of unacceptable service, both in real terms and lost access.

Therefore, it is necessary to have service centers reasonably located across the regions in which the cars are sold. Having that dense nationwide network of service locations is expensive. Somebody has to pay for that somewhere along the line, regardless of who owns it and how it operates. Certainly something new can evolve beyond the dealership model, but without somebody footing the bill in some way the service will either be too poor/inaccessible OR consumers will have to pay for it in more expensive vehicles. Tesla tried to compromise with their mobile fleet of repair vans, but has learned that they are not capable enough to replace an actual facility.
 

Barno

Active Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 17, 2020
Messages
41
Reaction score
67
Location
Long Island NY
First Name
Gary
Vehicles
Mach E Premium ER AWD
Country flag
Here's the problem: the online SALES model for simply vending commodity items works fairly well - until something goes wrong and SERVICE of some kind is needed. For commodity items that are relatively lightweight that "service" typically involves having to contact the vendor and arrange for the item to be sent somewhere for repairs or replacement. The consumer is simply left without having the item while the bidirectional shipping (and potential repair) time elapses. That's fine for toaster ovens and personal laptops, but cars are too expensive to ship and certainly too crucial for most people's lives for that low level of service to be acceptable. In other words the online SERVICE model is inappropriate for vehicles - the COST of the buying convenience is far outweighed by the EXPENSE of unacceptable service, both in real terms and lost access.

Therefore, it is necessary to have service centers reasonably located across the regions in which the cars are sold. Having that dense nationwide network of service locations is expensive. Somebody has to pay for that somewhere along the line, regardless of who owns it and how it operates. Certainly something new can evolve beyond the dealership model, but without somebody footing the bill in some way the service will either be too poor/inaccessible OR consumers will have to pay for it in more expensive vehicles. Tesla tried to compromise with their mobile fleet of repair vans, but has learned that they are not capable enough to replace an actual facility.
Service is where the profit is and you can have manufacturer owned, franchisees, and third party manufacturer approved shops competing for our service and parts dollars.

You can buy online and take delivery from the service center. You can then go for warranty and out of warranty service. How about also doing collision work, retail chargers at each service center and washes and detailing? They can also sell and install replacement batteries, along with tires, wipers and anything else you can think of.

Use the Apple model. You can buy from Apple online, from an Apple store (highest profit retailer per sq ft by far) or from Walmart. You can make an appointment for service in the store or send it back for service and battery replacement.

Wait, Apple is going to do that.

ABD! Anything But Dealers, it is 2021
 

highland58

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
500
Reaction score
610
Location
Seattle area
First Name
Dave
Vehicles
2018 Honda Clarity PHEV and 2016 Nissan LEAF
Occupation
IT
Country flag
The lucky buyer!
Delivery date of the first “First Edition"
12/31/20202355 CSTagoldman
The car was delivered on 12/31 it appears, so agoldman looks to be the Grand Prize winner. What was the Grand Prize again? His was also the first guess!

OK, we do need a Reward for the one who calculates all the variables here and comes up as the winner. He / she will be sent an Email Gift Certificate for $100 for ordering from The Ford Merchandise Store.
 
Last edited:

trutolife27

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2020
Messages
2,378
Reaction score
10,987
Location
Bourbon Country.
Vehicles
Lincoln mkx , Ford f-150
Country flag
MSRP is what it is. There are so many items that are sold over or under. Demand, demand. How many people are paying way over MSRP on a PlayStation 5, second market. How many people would have paid 200 more mark up on it to have it?
Ever buy any rifles or guns? the Ruger 57 was marked up way about MSRP this year and people went crazy for it.
When computer parts could not be found in may when covid hit parts were marked up way over msrp. It will never end as the world is always supply and demand.

How many people right now in this forum would have paid an extra 1,000 dollars to have their mache on December 30th? More then you think
 

AndyS_OSU

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2019
Messages
533
Reaction score
754
Location
Texas
Vehicles
2017 Chevrolet BoltEV
Occupation
Educator
Country flag
MSRP is what it is. There are so many items that are sold over or under. Demand, demand. How many people are paying way over MSRP on a PlayStation 5, second market. How many people would have paid 200 more mark up on it to have it?
Ever buy any rifles or guns? the Ruger 57 was marked up way about MSRP this year and people went crazy for it.
When computer parts could not be found in may when covid hit parts were marked up way over msrp. It will never end as the world is always supply and demand.

How many people right now in this forum would have paid an extra 1,000 dollars to have their mache on December 30th? More then you think
I don’t blame them for adding ADM on a vehicle that a customer released. If the market supports it then more power to them.

And for the record I did offer them $1000 over MSRP to get a MachE yesterday. Not quite what they were looking for. 😂
 

Barno

Active Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 17, 2020
Messages
41
Reaction score
67
Location
Long Island NY
First Name
Gary
Vehicles
Mach E Premium ER AWD
Country flag
I don’t blame them for adding ADM on a vehicle that a customer released. If the market supports it then more power to them.

And for the record I did offer them $1000 over MSRP to get a MachE yesterday. Not quite what they were looking for. 😂
I do blame them. What they did is one of the many reasons that has lead to Tesla’s success. Sell the car for what the market bears, but stop with the “I’ll talk to my manager” crap! Think outside the box and stop defending a ridiculous system that is about to go away.

Sears took out local monopolistic General Stores. Amazon and Costco helped wipe out Sears. Uber took down Medallion Cabs. Apple Kills it in retail yet people say brick and mortar is dying.

Zappos was told that “you can’t sell shoes by mail”. It goes on and on and on.

The dealer system is under the gun and would be dead already if not for ridiculous laws protecting it, same as the USPS.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ARK

trutolife27

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2020
Messages
2,378
Reaction score
10,987
Location
Bourbon Country.
Vehicles
Lincoln mkx , Ford f-150
Country flag
I do blame them. What they did is one of the many reasons that has lead to Tesla’s success. Sell the car for what the market bears, but stop with the “I’ll talk to my manager” crap! Think outside the box and stop defending a ridiculous system that is about to go away.

Sears took out local monopolistic General Stores. Amazon and Costco helped wipe out Sears. Uber took down Medallion Cabs. Apple Kills it in retail yet people say brick and mortar is dying.

Zappos was told that “you can’t sell shoes by mail”. It goes on and on and on.

The dealer system is under the gun and would be dead already if not for ridiculous laws protecting it, same as the USPS.
Guess I should be mad when milk is 99 cents a gallon on week and 2 dollars another week?
All products are up and down with msrp. You attacking dealers as if they are the only ones.
Look at all the price hiking that happened during covid. The list is long enough to get to the moon.
 

Barno

Active Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 17, 2020
Messages
41
Reaction score
67
Location
Long Island NY
First Name
Gary
Vehicles
Mach E Premium ER AWD
Country flag
Guess I should be mad when milk is 99 cents a gallon on week and 2 dollars another week?
All products are up and down with msrp. You attacking dealers as if they are the only ones.
Look at all the price hiking that happened during covid. The list is long enough to get to the moon.
How is that the same thing?
I am attacking them because most of them are awful..

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/10-biggest-reasons-people-hate-car-dealerships/


Guess I should be mad when milk is 99 cents a gallon on week and 2 dollars another week?
All products are up and down with msrp. You attacking dealers as if they are the only ones.
Look at all the price hiking that happened during covid. The list is long enough to get to the moon.
Do you like buying a car from a dealer?
 

JamieGeek

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
2,179
Reaction score
3,531
Location
Southeastern Michigan
Website
spareelectrons.wordpress.com
Vehicles
Mach-E, old: Bolt, C-Max Energi, Focus Electric
Country flag
Do you like buying a car from a dealer?
Yup: Been buying my Fords from the same dealer going on 20 years now. My original salesperson retired and we've since started using a new one.

If we find a car we like in their inventory (even if we don't) I just call with the VIN and we usually pick it up the next day, no fuss, no muss.
 



 









Advertisement


Top