Mach-E retail deliveries begin! -- First to customer in Dallas

[trutolife27]

How is that the same thing?
I am attacking them because most of them are awful..

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/10-biggest-reasons-people-hate-car-dealerships/



Do you like buying a car from a dealer?

Have no problem with it. Where the problem is more is trying to buy from a used car dealer. The buy here pay here makes things worse. with covid, you can go online now and buy from dealers without all the older dealer ways if you don't like.
You have to remember the dealer purchases the vehicle. It is theirs to sell to make money. I don't think the price of a new pair of jordans made in a sweatshop should be the price also right? Some items have what is called secret MSRP where the mark up is extreme to start before the consumer knows the true cost. For some things like loaf of bread, the margins are small but other things like the pair of Jordan are extreme.

So then why even put out an MSRP and just sell it for a price we don't know than the dealer can list it and no one will ever know. Just like 99% of the items we buy right now. Dealers have to eat too.

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[Barno]

Yup: Been buying my Fords from the same dealer going on 20 years now. My original salesperson retired and we've since started using a new one.

If we find a car we like in their inventory (even if we don't) I just call with the VIN and we usually pick it up the next day, no fuss, no muss.

That is good to hear.
If you had to guess, do you think your experience is the exception or the rule?

 

[JamieGeek]

That is good to hear.
If you had to guess, do you think your experience is the exception or the rule?

Good question; I don't know.

You do read about the dealer horror stories all the time, but the internet has a way of magnifying the outliers so that they appear more common than they really are (look in any RV forum and all you see are people complaining about problems with their RV which would lead you to believe that all RV's are junk. Except that the people without problems don't post anything).

You also have to keep in mind that I'm in Southeastern Michigan (e.g. greater Detroit area) where just about everyone here are automotive engineers so the local dealers do have to step up their game a little because of the informed customer base.

 

[Barno]

Have no problem with it. Where the problem is more is trying to buy from a used car dealer. The buy here pay here makes things worse. with covid, you can go online now and buy from dealers without all the older dealer ways if you don't like.
You have to remember the dealer purchases the vehicle. It is theirs to sell to make money. I don't think the price of a new pair of jordans made in a sweatshop should be the price also right? Some items have what is called secret MSRP where the mark up is extreme to start before the consumer knows the true cost. For some things like the bread, the margins are small but other things like the pair of Jordan are extreme.

So then why even put out an MSRP and just sell it for a price we don't know than the dealer can list it and no one will ever know. Just like 99% of the items we buy right now. Dealers have to eat too.

Actually, you are kind of proving my point.

How come they buy the cars, and then sell it to the public?

Answer: because that is the way it has always been done.

How come you appear to be defending a practice that is hated by almost everyone?


Elon Musk did what Preston Tucker couldn’t. Thank goodness!

 

[trutolife27]

Actually, you are kind of proving my point.

How come they buy the cars, and then sell it to the public?

Answer: because that is the way it has always been done!

Elon Musk did what Preston Tucker couldn’t. Thank goodness!

Walmart is a dealer, all stores are. I didn't buy things directly.
not in every state can tesla. out of all the things we buy what do we buy direct? The loss of the middle man would crumble the economy. you can buy a ford from many dealers just about the same as a tesla now again because of covid. When I called about the mache in Dallas was going to do it all over the phone and fax a few papers and be done.

Go and walk in pick it up leave, or have it sent here by rail. here where I live I know it's so much better to drive 20 minutes to a dealer than over 2 hours to the tesla showroom for repair also.

 

[Barno]

Good question;

Walmart is a dealer, all stores are. I didn't buy things directly.
not in every state can tesla. out of all the things we buy what do we buy direct? The loss of the middle man would crumble the economy. you can buy a ford from many dealers just about the same as a tesla now again because of covid. When I called about the mache in Dallas was going to do it all over the phone and fax a few papers and be done.

Go and walk in pick it up leave, or have it sent here by rail. here where I live I know it's so much better to drive 20 minutes to a dealer than over 2 hours to the tesla showroom for repair also.

Well, let’s agree to disagree.

That was fun.
I believe that dealers will part of our quaint history one day and you think that the economy will fall to pieces if they go away. Time will tell.

I will leave you with this famous quote circa 2006:
“Nobody is going to write emails and messages on a glass screen”.
Research In Motion ( Blackerry’s parent).

Cheers to a great 2021 in our MMEs

 

[ARK]

Here's the problem: the online SALES model for simply vending commodity items works fairly well - until something goes wrong and SERVICE of some kind is needed. For commodity items that are relatively lightweight that "service" typically involves having to contact the vendor and arrange for the item to be sent somewhere for repairs or replacement. The consumer is simply left without having the item while the bidirectional shipping (and potential repair) time elapses. That's fine for toaster ovens and personal laptops, but cars are too expensive to ship and certainly too crucial for most people's lives for that low level of service to be acceptable. In other words the online SERVICE model is inappropriate for vehicles - the COST of the buying convenience is far outweighed by the EXPENSE of unacceptable service, both in real terms and lost access.

Therefore, it is necessary to have service centers reasonably located across the regions in which the cars are sold. Having that dense nationwide network of service locations is expensive. Somebody has to pay for that somewhere along the line, regardless of who owns it and how it operates. Certainly something new can evolve beyond the dealership model, but without somebody footing the bill in some way the service will either be too poor/inaccessible OR consumers will have to pay for it in more expensive vehicles. Tesla tried to compromise with their mobile fleet of repair vans, but has learned that they are not capable enough to replace an actual facility.

One thing that I feel we have not discussed when talking about dealer servicing is that lots of people think dealers are, overall, the worst at car repair. At least that is what I have heard from many friends and family members over time, but I will admit that I am not knowledgeable enough about car repair to know if this is completely accurate - just that lots of people think dealers are often overpriced and subpar when it comes to repairs compared to what you can get if you went to an independent mechanic or body shop.

In my experience, I've never felt limited when going to an independent shop in terms of what they can do. As far as I understand, they have just as much access to service bulletins and the like when troubleshooting or following the manufacturer's recommendation in how to resolve an issue, check for a potential issue on some component, etc.

I think free warranty work is the only stuff that right now you pretty much have to go to a dealership for, but I don't think it would be a huge thing for manufacturers to set standards to work with independent shops on warranty work. If AAA can have a list of approved auto repair shops, so can Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, etc.

Instead of massive dealerships, I think all that manufacturers need are retail stores like Tesla to directly sell to the public and facilitate test drives. Everything else can be outsourced as not part of the core business. I think Tesla has its own service centers not because it needs to but because, like Apple, they want a closed universe where they control all aspects of their product - they want to sell it to you, be in charge of servicing it, control the charging network, hinder third-party access to the product (no Apple CarPlay, no Android Auto), and so forth.

 

[trutolife27]

Well, let’s agree to disagree.

That was fun.
I believe that dealers will part of our quaint history one day and you think that the economy will fall to pieces if they go away. Time will tell.

I will leave you with this famous quote circa 2006:
“Nobody is going to write emails and messages on a glass screen”.
Research In Motion ( Blackerry’s parent).

Cheers to a great 2021 in our MMEs

barno your not wrong I get your point. It's not perfect always at a dealer. Nore is it perfect always going out to eat with the different waitress. The used car aspect is what gives people a bad taste. You can now look at a ford online like it there is the price go buy it and leave.

Manufacturers don't really want direct sales. Then you have to deal with the consumers. How many people sell their products on amazon. makes it easier for third parties.
As good as it sounded to start with tesla, things have had to change because of consumers "us"
the 7-day window, gone people abused it. Pr department what tesla did have gone. Costs are getting tight for tesla right now. With not advertising word of mouth only goes so far.

But no dealer is perfect nor am I. Maybe we can buy direct from McDonald's
suppliers and make our own big mac and shake at home so we don't have to deal with the order always being wrong?

 

[trutolife27]

One thing that I feel we have not discussed when talking about dealer servicing is that lots of people think dealers are, overall, the worst at car repair. At least that is what I have heard from many friends and family members over time, but I will admit that I am not knowledgeable enough about car repair to know if this is completely accurate - just that lots of people think dealers are often overpriced and subpar when it comes to repairs compared to what you can get if you went to an independent mechanic or body shop.

In my experience, I've never felt limited when going to an independent shop in terms of what they can do. As far as I understand, they have just as much access to service bulletins and the like when troubleshooting or following the manufacturer's recommendation in how to resolve an issue, check for a potential issue on some component, etc.

I think free warranty work is the only stuff that right now you pretty much have to go to a dealership for, but I don't think it would be a huge thing for manufacturers to set standards to work with independent shops on warranty work. If AAA can have a list of approved auto repair shops, so can Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, etc.

Instead of massive dealerships, I think all that manufacturers need are retail stores like Tesla to directly sell to the public and facilitate test drives. Everything else can be outsourced as not part of the core business. I think Tesla has its own service centers not because it needs to but because, like Apple, they want a closed universe where they control all aspects of their product - they want to sell it to you, be in charge of servicing it, control the charging network, hinder third-party access to the product (no Apple CarPlay, no Android Auto), and so forth.

yep, great point and that is one thing that is a big push about BEV. less to worry about breaking fewer parts fewer trips to a dealer. Anytime you go back to a dealer of any product it is going to cost more than from a third party. Phone repair, computer car. They always have the highest markup cost.

That is why tesla does that. They don't want other people finding flaws and getting info out there. The reason they won't sell parts. People could find better ways and it would get out. Videos on youtube about that. Wait a few years when things won't be covered by Telsa and you need a repair from only tesla to get fixed. Do you think it's going to be cheap? lol no way

 

[mamejunkie]

For me personally, it's not the dealership that I dislike. Its the haggle system that is in place where you know the $ is just suggested and depending on the time of day, how you look...the prices will vary. I am the type that prefer when 3 people goes into the store to buy the same exact item, they all the the same price.

But If I was the owner of the dealership that has 1 of only a handful of high demand car like the Mach-E. YES I would charge ADM. Squeeze until it hurts ?

 

[trutolife27]

For me personally, it's not the dealership that I dislike. Its the haggle system that is in place where you know the $ is just suggested and depending on the time of day, how you look...the prices will vary. I am the type that prefer when 3 people goes into the store to buy the same exact item, they all the the same price.

But If I was the owner of the dealership that has 1 of only a handful of high demand car like the Mach-E. YES I would charge ADM. Squeeze until it hurts ?

correct supply and demand. Here is one for allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll of us men. Diamonds, the big boys buy them up and hold them and only let a few out to keep prices high. A study done back in 2008 showed a diamond mark up sometimes is 300%.

But now you want a new car you can look online and get the price before you go. It has gotten wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better. The trade-in factor is the crap. No trade-in easy.

In fact, your car dealers will tell you they make way more with trades fix up and sell than off of dealer hold back.

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

correct supply and demand. Here is one for allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll of us men. Diamonds, the big boys buy them up and hold them and only let a few out to keep prices high. A study done back in 2008 showed a diamond mark up sometimes is 300%.

But now you want a new car you can look online and get the price before you go. It has gotten wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better. The trade-in factor is the crap. No trade-in easy.

In fact, your car dealers will tell you they make way more with trades fix up and sell than off of dealer hold back.

Yeah, that's why I went and bought my own gear and mined the carbon myself and made my own diamond. Couldn't have the Earth giving me flawed and marked up diamonds

 

[ab13]

I do blame them. What they did is one of the many reasons that has lead to Tesla’s success. Sell the car for what the market bears, but stop with the “I’ll talk to my manager” crap! Think outside the box and stop defending a ridiculous system that is about to go away.

I think you miss the point about dealer buying, if you buy at MSRP then there is no need to talk to the manager. It's only because people feel they can get a better deal then that requires negotiation. One can use a buying service if they don't want to deal with this situation. The other reason it exists is because of the amount of competition in established categories. If you want a minivan, there are like 4 or 5 reasonable choices, so the companies have to compete for the sales. That requires negotiation and promotion, etc...

Vehicles are priced based on a given production quantity, and since they are costly items, it can require sales people to get them sold. When certain popular products come to market there is a shortage at first, but eventually the production rate can match or surpass the demand. Once that happens and there is more competitive alternatives, active sales is necessary.

 

[NotSoJon]

correct supply and demand. Here is one for allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll of us men. Diamonds, the big boys buy them up and hold them and only let a few out to keep prices high. A study done back in 2008 showed a diamond mark up sometimes is 300%.

But now you want a new car you can look online and get the price before you go. It has gotten wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better. The trade-in factor is the crap. No trade-in easy.

In fact, your car dealers will tell you they make way more with trades fix up and sell than off of dealer hold back.

This is precisely why I plan to go with a 48 month Ford Options pricing. Maybe it's just my pessimism, but I think EV's are going to come a long way in four years and I intend to give back my 2021 MME and take off with a new 4 year lease on a 2025 MME. No trade-in haggling.

Who knows, by then we might be talking about 10 minute charging to 80% or 500 miles on a single charge?

 

[DaveRuns]

This is precisely why I plan to go with a 48 month Ford Options pricing. Maybe it's just my pessimism, but I think EV's are going to come a long way in four years and I intend to give back my 2021 MME and take off with a new 4 year lease on a 2025 MME. No trade-in haggling.

Who knows, by then we might be talking about 10 minute charging to 80% or 500 miles on a single charge?

If you do that 4yr option, will you have any trade-in value, or is it just like a lease? My fear would be not having any buying power when it comes to getting a new car in 4yrs.

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