Mach-E switching to LFP Batteries (Lithium Iron Phosphate) says Jim Farley

[Blue highway]

It looks like Ford is switching to LFP batteries including for F150 Lightning and Mach-E

CEO Jim Farley just revealed this during the recent Ford Q1 earnings call:​

“We’ve been working on LFP for quite some time, so let’s just leave it at that,” Farley said. “What I mean by that is, engineering LFP solutions in our first generation of products (Lightning and Mach-E), something that we see as a big opportunity and to move quickly.”​

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[jason330i]

Interesting. I wonder if this will only be for the standard range battery. Or will they somehow provide the same extended range with LFP.

 

[Blue highway]

There are a range of pros and cons to this off the top of my head.

Pros
Lower cost
Many more charge cycles
Can charge to 100% all the time with no degradation
Tolerates being "fully discharged" better than other chemistries

Cons
less range for the same weight
more weight (thus worse performance) for same range
more space for same range

 

[bshaw]

I’m guessing this chemistry allows them to use fewer rare earth metals that are in short supply and very expensive right now?
Since EV manufacturing capacity is basically constrained by battery supply right now, makes sense to switch, even with the trade offs mentioned above.

 

[Blue highway]

I’m guessing this chemistry allows them to use fewer rare earth metals that are in short supply and very expensive right now?
Since EV manufacturing capacity is basically constrained by battery supply right now, makes sense to switch, even with the trade offs mentioned above.

yep that is the play.

 

[voxel]

There are a range of pros and cons to this off the top of my head.

Pros
Lower cost
Many more charge cycles
Can charge to 100% all the time with no degradation
Tolerates being "fully discharged" better than other chemistries

Cons
less range for the same weight
more weight (thus worse performance) for same range
more space for same range

Not entirely true. No lithium-ion battery likes to be left at 100% and none like being fully discharged.

Telsa recommends charging to 100% at least once a week to calibrate the BMS since LFP batteries have flat discharge voltage curves.

LFP are less prone to fires because of a higher flashpoint.

The big cons: damage when charging at freezing temps and poor discharge performance at the same low temps. LFP EVs will need some resistive battery heater and will generally perform even worse (efficiency, etc) in sub freezing temps.

The big reason carmakers are moving to LFPs is simply cost. Nickel and cobalt costs have skyrocketed.

 

[evfinder]

The big thing here is using Iron in place of Nickle which reduces cost. Tesla is also including LFP in its battery mix.

 

[Electric Goat]

Does this allow them to lift the 5 second full throttle limit on the GTs in favor of no power cut off?

 

[nvabill]

Does this allow them to lift the 5 second full throttle limit on the GTs in favor of no power cut off?

Yes, all new GT's equipped with LFP batteries will have no 5 second full power restriction.

 

[Cherlin]

Yes, all new GT's equipped with LFP batteries will have no 5 second full power restriction.

do you have a source for that? I would be very surprised to even see LFP batteries in a GT as they tend to not get used in performance applications.

 

[EELinneman]

do you have a source for that? I would be very surprised to even see LFP batteries in a GT as they tend to not get used in performance applications.

I think this makes sense for the F-150 and the transit vans, but not for the MME. Supply chain is dictating these decisions and will for quite a while.

 

[Blue highway]

Does this allow them to lift the 5 second full throttle limit on the GTs in favor of no power cut off?

We don't really know the reasons behind the 5 second rule... Ford could have decided they needed to protect the batteries, could be thermally protecting the motor controller, could be just trying to stay out of the headlines when someone crashes one...

However, LFP is unlikely to help if battery limitation is the issue.

 

[nvabill]

do you have a source for that? I would be very surprised to even see LFP batteries in a GT as they tend to not get used in performance applications.

No, just a guess on my part but what do I know.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Does this allow them to lift the 5 second full throttle limit on the GTs in favor of no power cut off?

That’s a negative Ghostrider, your 5 second pattern is full!

 

[Electric Goat]

do you have a source for that? I would be very surprised to even see LFP batteries in a GT as they tend to not get used in performance applications.

We don't really know the reasons behind the 5 second rule... Ford could have decided they needed to protect the batteries, could be thermally protecting the motor controller, could be just trying to stay out of the headlines when someone crashes one...

However, LFP is unlikely to help if battery limitation is the issue.

Yeah, based on the 2 minutes of research that I just did on LFP, switching to LFP appears that it could hurt the performance of sporty/performance oriented vehicles.

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