Larry Paul

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I will add a note that new cars will get an adapter until Gen 2 cars come out with the NACS plug.

I don't think they're going to have J1772, CCS, and NACS plugs on their cars. That would be a HUGE charge port.
there would be enough room for a J1772 and NACS ports. Just drop the CCS Portion.

I would think the part could be retrofitted onto existing cars.
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Tampamike

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Ford's announcement says: "A Tesla-developed adapter will provide Ford F-150 Lightning, Mustang Mach-E and E-Transit vehicles fitted with the Combined Charging System (CCS) port access to Tesla’s V3 Superchargers. "

Are all Tesla Superchargers V3 now?
That was my question too. The news release specifically said V3 chargers. If that wasn’t a mistake, then that becomes an issue out there on the road. I would assume the Tesla app and maybe PlugShare would know which Tesla chargers are V3, right? Would could possibly go wrong?
 
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RickMachE

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You're missing the point. Tesla Supercharger cables are already short. Those on several companies' DCFC units aren't much better. Unless the charging companies switch to all pull-through chargers (which they won't), there is no way to reach most chargers to a rear-located port when towing a trailer.

I just towed a travel trailer behind my Lightning from the east coast to the west coast and back. I rarely had to disconnect. Most locations were challenging and inconvenient but they worked. If the charge port were in the rear we would have had to disconnect almost every time. That's would make trailering with an EV a non-starter for most people. There's a good reason both Ford and Rivian have the port on the front.
Question for you Mark:

How many chargers did you block access to by not disconnecting the trailer? Now, add in whether you needed additional spaces to then pull back out. And, if you didn't block other parking spots, how many lanes of parking lot traffic did you block?


Not being critical, but I've charged at 30 plus EA locations in 2 years. Some, you could not have charged without disconnecting. Some, if you pulled in to get to your port, you would have blocked at least 3 charges. And, if you pulled straight in, you would have blocked an entire parking lot lane. Just two examples below.

Georgetown, KY

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Lake City, FL

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ChasingCoral

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Why not? I mean, isn’t that how ALL current gas stations are set up?
  • Cars don't stay at gas pumps long, making it possible to have 2 or more pumps on each side of each island.
  • Most charging stations aren't in gas stations. They are in parking lots.
 


Ghost Ryder

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Why not? I mean, isn’t that how ALL current gas stations are set up?
Location and space availability. It takes much longer to charge than to fill up, hence we need more "stalls." For every pull through lane, you can have the equivalent of 3 charging spot.
 

AZBill

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FWIW, there are no onboard DC chargers -- the port connects directly to the battery.
Which means in the car NACS requires some extra contactors, what could go wrong for Ford (LOL). The big issue with NACS is that AC and DC use the same pins. You do not want to connect AC directly to the battery and you do not want to connect DC to the on-board charger. So there has to be extra safety mechanisms (i.e. internal switching), and software, in the car.

What happens if someone gets a NACS to CCS adapter and then plugs into a Tesla Destination charger which is AC? Will all cars that you coudl plug the adapter into have the appropriate safety mechanism to protect the battery? I believe this is the very reason Tesla has the Magic dock included in the stations, rather than as a customer purchased option.

The destination charger adapters go from NACS to J1772, which has different pins than CCS for AC on-board charger.

Part of the CCS design strategy was to avoid this failure point completely. Tesla did not worry about this becuase they controlled both ends.
 

Ghost Ryder

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It would be an appropriate gesture to give them to us for free since it’s going to be the de facto standard for Ford EV charging going forward. I mean, they gave us a second FOB when PAAK wasn’t working so well. I certainly Don’t want to pay the TeslaTap price.
Don't hold your breath. Ford in currently in the reducing content, and finding ways to increase revenue mode. No way they won't charge you for an adapter when you can charge at a CSS station. I think you have to pay for a mobile charger now whereas is was included last year.
 

EasyPass

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There will be a 12 inch by 24 inch charging port door, with 3 different adapters and a 6 question FordPass process to pick the right one.
This morning Farley said:
Adapters and software.....

Repeat after me.......adapters and software, adapters and software. ada.........🤣
 

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This morning Farley said:
Adapters and software.....

Repeat after me.......adapters and software, adapters and software. ada.........🤣
Yeah I heard the CNBC interview as well. He and Musk did say on the Twitter Spaces chat that the reason current Ford EVs will not be able to use the V3 Superchargers until 2024 is that they're working on the Ford software being able to communicate with the Telsa supercharger software. I believe this is related to some from of Plug and Charge capability. But Farley mentioned on CNBC that Ford customers will be able to use the Ford Pass app to activate.
 

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On our cross country road trip in the Lightning pulling a travel trailer, CA and AZ were the only places we had to wait. I don't think it would have even happened there if it weren't for all the car companies giving away free charging.
BMW did it right. They give 30 minutes free per session for a couple of years.
 

hprose

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At first glance...
  1. Sucks for us Gen 1 owners, but such is life for early adopters. Comes with the territory.
  2. Great for Gen 2 on, and a smart long term decision.
  3. Elon said that their intent is to have Ford owners on "equal footing" with Tesla owners. Tesla owners will not be happy.
Yep. I’ve got all of the computer accessories that use USB-A ports and my new computer only has a USB-C port. Now I need to buy a hub. I never should have bought those prior computers.
 

EasyPass

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Seriously!
Who really thought there would be NO POLITICS / SOCIAL / MUSK COMMENTARY on this thread? The subject matter just begs for those subjects to be discussed.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'll be closely watching if Tesla will be continuing their Magic Dock rollout after this agreement. If they delivered 100% coverage for that I'd tend to think the whole issue mostly moot, other than NACS having to take a back seat in the whole affair.
 
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SoCalPony

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The cost of manufacturing two "inlet ports" on every EV is likely going to be the deciding factor. Ford is losing money on every Mach-E they sell, so getting costs down as they scale production up is Job #1. I can't imagine why they haven't come right out and just said "Only a single NACS inlet port will be on all vehicles starting in MY 25".

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EasyPass

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Yeah I heard the CNBC interview as well. He and Musk did say on the Twitter Spaces chat that the reason current Ford EVs will not be able to use the V3 Superchargers until 2024 is that they're working on the Ford software being able to communicate with the Telsa supercharger software. I believe this is related to some from of Plug and Charge capability. But Farley mentioned on CNBC that Ford customers will be able to use the Ford Pass app to activate.
I assume that currently the MME can only SuperCharge at a Magic Dock facility but must use the Tesla App with a pre-defined credit card. The future software part might enable Fordpass/Plug-and-Charge protocols to replace/supplement the Tesla App, I expect. In that target scenario I fail to see a need for Ford or any other auto manufacturer to alter their current vehicle charge port strategy. Question is will Tesla be amenable to that in the long term or will there be many other alternatives (aka standards😁)?
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