Mach-E to gain access to Tesla Superchargers! Get standard NACS port starting 2025! [⚠️ ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS / SOCIAL / MUSK COMMENTARY]

[dbsb3233]

While it talks about pricing, it doesn't rule out free chargers for existing owners. They could set a policy that owners of vehicles delivered before 5/26/23 (Farley pronouncement on CNBC) get a free adapter.

Since the CCS1 -> NACS adapter retails at $175, let's figure cost to Ford would be $150 including shipping. At under 200,000 BEVs delivered so far that would cost Ford under $30M for lots of good will.

For comparison, the cost to air a Super Bowl commercial is $7M for a single 30 second spot.

I'd say 95% of the good will is them simply delivering the breakthrough capability for us to charge on BOTH networks.

Everyone would love to get an adapter for "free", of course, but in terms of good will, I feel like they've way more than delivered on that. If I need to buy a $200 adapter to use the 2nd network, I have no problem with that. They do cost money to make. Ford's already going above and beyond just making this deal to access the SC network (which I doubt came cheap for them).

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[ChasingCoral]

Ford's already going above and beyond just making this deal to access the SC network (which I doubt came cheap for them).

There may not have been much outlay on Ford's part. This has the potential to give Tesla access to NEVI funds.

 

[PalmS]

I just hope that there will be enough of these adapters to meet supply and demand when they are available for purchase.

 

[dbsb3233]

There may not have been much outlay on Ford's part. This has the potential to give Tesla access to NEVI funds.

Would be interesting to see what the deal was, but I suspect we'll never find out. There's pros and cons to this for Tesla. Magic Dock gave them access to NEVI funds too if they wanted (if they also meet the credit card requirement, which would still be another step to qualify after the Ford deal too).

On the downside though is the hit they'll take with current Tesla owners, and more importantly, potential new buyers. Exclusive access to the best charging network was a huge selling point for them (costs aside). Now that exclusivity is gone with another major automaker allowed in, with probably more to follow.

Even though there's some signs that they might have crossed the DCFC profitability line and will actually make some profit from the charging sales, it's likely a pittance compared to a potential loss of car sales.

 

[@SARANED]

This is great news for Ford EV owners, but I can’t imagine why Tesla would want to do this. The biggest reason people buy a Tesla over a Mach-E, which is what I did 2 years ago, is solely based on the superior supercharger network. Eliminating that would’ve made the Mach-E a no brainer for me a few years ago.

The only answer would be Ford paid Tesla a ton of money to have access, which will obviously be pushed to Ford owners. Alternatively, Ford EV drivers could just pay more to change than Tesla drivers.

Either way, being a current Tesla owner and a month or so away from moving to a Mach-E owner, I’m thrilled.

I’m sure the Tesla drivers I’m leaving behind wont feel the same way.

Maybe Ford pledged monetary support to expand the Tesla Charger network. Electric Cars will become as common as Gas cars when the chargers are as common as gas stations.

 

[dbsb3233]

I just hope that there will be enough of these adapters to meet supply and demand when they are available for purchase.

Yeah I could see them selling out fast and being back-ordered for 3 months.

I could also see the price starting high before settling in at a more normal level. I think that happened with the CCS adapter for Tesla drivers. Wasn't it like $399 or something at the very beginning, before settling in at $175?

 

[SWO]

Munro video states the NACS input port and in car wiring will cost 10-30% less than the CCS implementation. Good video. Also, 0% possibility of Ford having two different charge connectors. CCS is done, stick a fork in it.

Putting the locking mechanism in the vehicle versus charging connector is brilliant. If the mechanism breaks, you have one car that is broke. If the charger connector breaks, no one is using it until it gets repaired. Also, the in vehicle mechanism will get used maybe once per day or a few times if on a road trip. The charger connector mechanism could get used 30 times per day. Big difference in design lifetime engineering. Hadn't considered that angle before.

The Mach-E charging port exterior cover is also painted, versus the NACS cover, so tougher logistics for the supplier of the part(s).

SCPony

The flip side is that you move the part that can break to your personal vehicle.

I will reserve judgment until I watch the video but I'm highly skeptical that the vehicle side is cheaper considering the charge pins are used for AC and DC. That should result in extra hardware and software I would think.

 

[thekat03]

Yeah I could see them selling out fast and being back-ordered for 3 months.

I could also see the price starting high before settling in at a more normal level. I think that happened with the CCS adapter for Tesla drivers. Wasn't it like $399 or something at the very beginning, before settling in at $175?

Yup. Supply and demand. Making them free for goodwill isn't likely to be the consideration here, so much as how many they can pump out, and how much people are willing to pay for them.

 

[SWO]

Yeah I could see them selling out fast and being back-ordered for 3 months.

I could also see the price starting high before settling in at a more normal level. I think that happened with the CCS adapter for Tesla drivers. Wasn't it like $399 or something at the very beginning, before settling in at $175?

I think the 3rd party adapters were $400.

 

[cdiv]

But again, I don't think you can do a DCFC cable without liquid cooling.

v2 superchargers didn't have liquid cooled cables. Liquid cooling allows for thinner cables, but a passively cooled extension should be possible.

 

[dbsb3233]

v2 superchargers didn't have liquid cooled cables. Liquid cooling allows for thinner cables, but a passively cooled extension should be possible.

But then you have a really thick, heavy cable to carry around.

And even then there's a safety problem, because someone might try to pull more than 150kw through it. On the V2s, the max power delivered is 150 so it could never go higher. On these V3s its 250.

 

[Garbone]

Munro video states the NACS input port and in car wiring will cost 10-30% less than the CCS implementation. Good video. Also, 0% possibility of Ford having two different charge connectors. CCS is done, stick a fork in it.

Putting the locking mechanism in the vehicle versus charging connector is brilliant. If the mechanism breaks, you have one car that is broke. If the charger connector breaks, no one is using it until it gets repaired.

Yup, The NACS will still get dropped by the lady holding her latte or phone in her off hand. Bonus is NACS will have no moving bits to snap off whenit hits the pavement.

 

[kodiakng]

True but Mach Es don't charge much about 150 kW.

ok, i'll clarify my statement... i would have serious concerns using these at all.

ampacity for DC circuits is highly limited by cross-section and length. the site doesn't describe the cross-sectional area of the cable but it isn't any larger than the supercharger cable. the length is described as 14-ft which is definitely longer than the supercharger cable.

the DC wire size calculator i use for quick estimates only goes up to 4/0 cable and with 120kW and for our 350-400V architecture vehicles not even a 4/0 cable would be rated for success.

 

[kodiakng]

While it talks about pricing, it doesn't rule out free chargers for existing owners. They could set a policy that owners of vehicles delivered before 5/26/23 (Farley pronouncement on CNBC) get a free adapter.

Since the CCS1 -> NACS adapter retails at $175, let's figure cost to Ford would be $150 including shipping. At under 200,000 BEVs delivered so far that would cost Ford under $30M for lots of good will.

For comparison, the cost to air a Super Bowl commercial is $7M for a single 30 second spot.

i think @Mach-Lee hit it on the head if they're actually considering a "free to any ford EV owner who wants one" strategy. that might put the take rate in the 30-50% range and cut their actual outlay in half but good will would stay at full value.

i am still skeptical of any free program but it's not out of the question.

 

[kodiakng]

Munro video states the NACS input port and in car wiring will cost 10-30% less than the CCS implementation. Good video. Also, 0% possibility of Ford having two different charge connectors. CCS is done, stick a fork in it.

Putting the locking mechanism in the vehicle versus charging connector is brilliant. If the mechanism breaks, you have one car that is broke. If the charger connector breaks, no one is using it until it gets repaired. Also, the in vehicle mechanism will get used maybe once per day or a few times if on a road trip. The charger connector mechanism could get used 30 times per day. Big difference in design lifetime engineering. Hadn't considered that angle before.

The Mach-E charging port exterior cover is also painted, versus the NACS cover, so tougher logistics for the supplier of the part(s).

SCPony

definitely agree the NACS port/inlet design is superior to the CCS version. the internal circuit path does have a higher complexity since the high voltage/current pins are shared between AC and DC. tesla put up a good tech spec and safety design discussion on this though.

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