Mach-E Will Charge 30% Faster Than Earlier Estimates Announces Ford

[slawwach]

2 weeks ago I've been driving 260 miles in ICE vehicle. I traded it for a BEV and drove back exactly same way.
It took me 4.5 hours in an ICE car. I didn't have to refuel, but I did stop to eat something and had a bio break.
It took me 6 hours and 10 minutes to get back in EV. I had two charging stops(EA and EVgo) + one more only to see that EVgo charger didn't work, which cost me some time. Good that there was another one in my range.

I could have made it faster according to ABRP, but that would require driving 62 mph on an Interstate, which I refuse to do . If I did drive that slow I would need only one charging at EA, which is faster than EVgo.

Another interesting fact. I used roughly $18 of gas. Electricity on my way back cost me around $52. Most of my charging happens at home so in big picture I don't really care that much, but road trips can be expensive if you car is in an unlucky EA pricing bracket.

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[Billyk24]

2 weeks ago I've been driving 260 miles in ICE vehicle. I traded it for a BEV and drove back exactly same way.
It took me 4.5 hours in an ICE car. I didn't have to refuel, but I did stop to eat something and had a bio break.
It took me 6 hours and 10 minutes to get back in EV. I had two charging stops(EA and EVgo) + one more only to see that EVgo charger didn't work, which cost me some time. Good that there was another one in my range.

I could have made it faster according to ABRP, but that would require driving 62 mph on an Interstate, which I refuse to do . If I did drive that slow I would need only one charging at EA, which is faster than EVgo.

Another interesting fact. I used roughly $18 of gas. Electricity on my way back cost me around $52. Most of my charging happens at home so in big picture I don't really care that much, but road trips can be expensive if you car is in an unlucky EA pricing bracket.

Seems like the range on your BEV is limited or you were interested in trying out various chargers? 260 miles and needing two charging stops? Did you leave the dealership with a semi-full "tank"?

 

[slawwach]

Seems like the range on your BEV is limited or you were interested in trying out various chargers? 260 miles and needing two charging stops? Did you leave the dealership with a semi-full "tank"?

Yes. They had received it same day I took it. Their charger was slow, so I decided to leave at 60% and charge on my way to make it home before midnight.

 

[dbsb3233]

Yup. Over 500 miles, it can be 75-90 mins of stoppage in the MME vs. 15-45 mins in the fossil car. There's certainly going to be a time penalty but I'm not convinced that 2+ hours over an 8-9 hour drive is at all accurate.

For those that are truly ambitious, one can always do the Bjorn-style cannonballing and knock out a 620mi drive in as little as ten hours.

As I explained, the 2+ hour extra time was for a 785 mile drive, not a 500 mile one. Obviously a third less miles wouldn't require quite as much extra time. It also included one charger that was 10 minutes off the interstate (thus 20 minutes extra). Adding up to about 3 total hours of refueling stops, vs less than an hour using ICE for 2 refuels plus lunch at Arby's.

You can use ABRP to estimate it, or you can even get a rough estimate by using Ford's own number of 45 minutes to do a 10-80% charge on L3. That's 210 miles (RWD ER), but at high speed there's probably around a 20% efficiency penalty so figure ~170 miles on 45 minutes of charge (3.8 miles per minute of charge). 785 miles minus the first leg (charged at home) means about 600 miles / 3.8 = 158 minutes = 2.6 hours of charges enroute. Which is right about what ABRP shows too.

For a shorter 500 mile trip, figure roughly 315 miles of enroute charging / 3.8 = 83 minutes.

And of course that leaves you nearly empty upon arrival at your destination. The refuel there may or may not be time-consuming depending on whether you have overnight L2 at that end or not. That's not factored into any of the above, but it's a consideration too.

That 620 mile Bjorn trip, BTW, can be done in under 9 hours in ICE (on a 75 MPH interstate) if you're connonballing it (stops only for gas and bathroom, eating in the car). We've done that too. It's almost exactly the Denver-Kansas City drive distance.

 

[dbsb3233]

I just noticed that the "61 miles in 10 minutes" has been added to Ford's US website for the Mach-e. It wasn't showing there when we were first discussing this press release.

Unfortunately there's no new wording in the (i) link explaining the inconsistencies we discussed in detail here.

https://www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/2021/?intcmp=hp-brandgallery-mache

 

[hybrid2bev]

Tesla increases Model S and X Supercharging rate to 225 kW

Tesla has increased the top Model S and X Supercharging rate to 225 kW through a software update.

Wonder if we'll see similar increases with the Mach-E?

https://electrek.co/2020/06/24/tesla-model-s-x-supercharging-rate-increase-225-kw/

 

[dbsb3233]

It looks like the 45 minute time for 10-80% L3 charging is still in all the announcements coming out. Which should mean that the "30% improvement" in charging time to 61 miles in 10 minutes is NOT the average time, but rather just the peak of the charge curve.

There was some hope that 61 in 10 was the AVERAGE rather than the PEAK, and they just forgot to update that 45 minute number when they announced the 30% "improvement". But on the 300 mile version that would calculate to only a 34 minute 10-80% charge time (210 miles / 6.1 = 34 minutes). So it must be peak rather than average. And we already knew the early part of the curve should charge faster. Meaning this wasn't really an improvement at all, just a different way to describe it to make it sound better.

 

[silverelan]

Tesla increases Model S and X Supercharging rate to 225 kW

Tesla has increased the top Model S and X Supercharging rate to 225 kW through a software update.

Wonder if we'll see similar increases with the Mach-E?

https://electrek.co/2020/06/24/tesla-model-s-x-supercharging-rate-increase-225-kw/

It'd be great if MME could charge faster than 45mins with a peak rate above 150kW but as Darren Palmer explained, the BMS was built so that the battery would have 70% life remaining after 8 years and 100,000 miles in a car that was subjected to the WORST conditions (basically lived in the Mojave desert and only ever DC fast charged).

The only way Ford can live up to that guarantee is by being very careful in managing the pack with that use case in mind.

30:33 timestamp


edit: it's quite possible it'll be faster than 45 mins it's just that we have to understand that Ford built the battery pack system for the WORST use case and went backwards from there.

 

[timbop]

It looks like the 45 minute time for 10-80% L3 charging is still in all the announcements coming out. Which should mean that the "30% improvement" in charging time to 61 miles in 10 minutes is NOT the average time, but rather just the peak of the charge curve.

There was some hope that 61 in 10 was the AVERAGE rather than the PEAK, and they just forgot to update that 45 minute number when they announced the 30% "improvement". But on the 300 mile version that would calculate to only a 34 minute 10-80% charge time (210 miles / 6.1 = 34 minutes). So it must be peak rather than average. And we already knew the early part of the curve should charge faster. Meaning this wasn't really an improvement at all, just a different way to describe it to make it sound better.

Sad, but true. That original 46 miles/10 min number was the average, and the 62 minute is the best-case peak for the same curve.

 

[dbsb3233]

Interesting that in the video immediately following that battery talk (31:48), they also confirm the assumed-but-not-previously-confirmed "preferred pricing" at EA with a FordPass subscription. (Which I assume is the EA subscription rate.)

 

[dbsb3233]

it's quite possible it'll be faster than 45 mins it's just that we have to understand that Ford built the battery pack system for the WORST use case and went backwards from there.

Do weather conditions (temp) affect charging time much? That's one I'm unfamiliar with either way.

 

[buzznwood]

Do weather conditions (temp) affect charging time much? That's one I'm unfamiliar with either way.

It is more the battery temperature, so if you are in a cold climate and the battery is cold it is going to take a while as the battery gets up to temp, if you can pre-condition the battery so that when you get the charger it will help, otherwise you will be spending the first part of the charging session with it getting the battery into a temp range that works best.

Hence why the whole long journeys in the mach-e I have mentally classed as a pain and just can't be bothered with it so I have to keep an ICE seems a bit pointless but until the situation improves that it a BEV is just as convenient as an ice it is too much hassle.

I will instead just look forward to coming down each morning to a full tank of gas and having a enough to go about my daily commute and local errands and not worry about wasting fuel crawling along in traffic.

 

[jhalkias]

For anyone really interested in charging and batteries on road trips, I would highly recommend watching Kyle's videos on out of spec motoring on Youtube. While most of them are with a Tesla, he does have some with a Kona, and it really gives you insight as to the true nature of charging on the road, how temperature affects a battery for charging, and how the chargers you plug into can be faster or slower. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyIzTVZNIAMY9JhzKc-rriQ

 

[ajmartineau]

To me, the 61 miles in 10 minutes seems conservative if the peak is 150kw.
Peak charging for 10 minutes would charge the battery 25kwh.
If the car can do 300 miles on 88kWh then the m/kWh would come out to 3.4.
So, 25 kWh at 3.4 m/kWh is 85 miles.

Are my maths or assumptions off?

 

[timbop]

To me, the 61 miles in 10 minutes seems conservative if the peak is 150kw.
Peak charging for 10 minutes would charge the battery 25kwh.
If the car can do 300 miles on 88kWh then the kWh/mile would come out to 3.4.
So, 25 kWh at 3.4 kWh/mile is 85 miles.

Are my maths or assumptions off?

Your assumptions - the 150kw peak doesn't last the full 10 minutes; it drops to an average of roughly 115kw.

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