dbsb3233

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What has me not getting my hopes up that it's an actual improvement is that "first 10 minutes" footnote. I don't remember that ever appearing in any Ford info before. Seems like a new disclaimer explicitly added for this press release. That doesn't seem accidental. (Plus the fact they reiterated the 45 minute number prominently in the middle of the article.)

All their previous info pushed the "47 miles in 10 minutes", which we've calculated as the average of the whole 10-80% charge curve (the numbers match). But much of the public (that's less familiar with how EVs work) doesn't really know that, or that charge curves tend to be highly variable based on SOC.

The cynical way to look at this would be Ford having planned this all along as a PR move -- announce the 47 miles number initially, then make a marketing splash with the "improved!" 61 number later, knowing that they're really just two different slices of the same charge curve that never changed.

Hopefully that's not the case, but it wouldn't totally surprise me.
 

JamieGeek

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I'd be willing to give Ford the benefit of the doubt here simply because the Mach-E is only the 2nd car they've ever produced with DCFC capability (late model Focus Electrics had it but the battery was really too small for that).
 

Wonky_Donkey

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Well marketing claims and calculations aside - Ford Europe have decided to update their various websites with the revised figure for a 10min charge. (and for the non metric people 119 km is 73 miles)

The US site has yet to be updated....

50166A23-B28C-4655-9F68-D630500042BD.png
AF2F7879-4260-41E1-B180-F21283EB6928.png
03A0070B-E571-44BD-BCE9-AE0AA45F6ACF.png

3FDC6EE1-454B-4FD4-AFDA-4CB2DCC976F7.png
 

pbojanoski

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Well marketing claims and calculations aside - Ford Europe have decided to update their various websites with the revised figure for a 10min charge. (and for the non metric people 119 km is 73 miles)

The US site has yet to be updated....

50166A23-B28C-4655-9F68-D630500042BD.png
AF2F7879-4260-41E1-B180-F21283EB6928.png
03A0070B-E571-44BD-BCE9-AE0AA45F6ACF.png

3FDC6EE1-454B-4FD4-AFDA-4CB2DCC976F7.png
Is there a change in the 0-60 times? I didn't think any non-GT AWD option had "less than 5 seconds" for a 0-60 or 0-100km/h acceleration. And it can't be referring to the GT.
 

eager2own

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Interesting. Clearly only the last one is the GT.

Is there a change in the 0-60 times? I didn't think any non-GT AWD option had "less than 5 seconds" for a 0-60 or 0-100km/h acceleration. And it can't be referring to the GT.
 

Wonky_Donkey

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Ford are a bit naughty as they use headline figures for different vehicles in the same banner. You have to click the caveats to get the detail...

Screenshot 2020-05-20 at 16.04.41.png
 

eager2own

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Ford are a bit naughty as they use headline figures for different vehicles in the same banner. You have to click the caveats to get the detail...

Screenshot 2020-05-20 at 16.04.41.png
That is outright misleading. They provide the range for a non-GT with the acceleration of a GT on the same banner.
It’s also odd: why claim GT acceleration of sub-5 seconds when it’s expected to be under 4? The last banner, in fact, states acceleration of mid-3 sec for GT w/ options (I’m assuming the optional Performance).

At least on the US banner, they do write above the range spec that it’s for the Ext. Range RWD and also label the GT w/ options for the acceleration. That may still confuse people into thinking they can have both, but it’s a little better than just adding a footnote reference.
 

pbojanoski

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Ford are a bit naughty as they use headline figures for different vehicles in the same banner. You have to click the caveats to get the detail...

Screenshot 2020-05-20 at 16.04.41.png
That explains it, although why wouldn't they say "less than 4 seconds"?
 

buzznwood

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That explains it, although why wouldn't they say "less than 4 seconds"?
Other side of the pond so that means 0-62 mph (100kmh) plus the times in euro land are not massaged to be lower still by subtracting a 1 foot roll out :(. Those factors can easily add .2 or more so could nudge an a GT into the 4 second range so despite playing fast and loose with the mixed specs <5 at least covers that.
 

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Just to add a glimmer of hope on my theory that the stated 10 minute charge time is an average for the 10-80% session and not the first 10 minutes, none of these sites (ford.co.uk, ford.fr, ford.nl) mention that the 10 minute charge rate applies to the first 10 minutes. The footnote indicates that speed is "achieved using high power charging".
Screen Shot 2020-05-20 at 11.43.25 AM.png


The other places they mention charging they do not have that caveat either, although the implication in the last screenshot below is 45 minutes to get 70%. I suspect that like the US, the ford.uk site was not completely updated: It says 350 mi/hr with a 370 mi WLTP range so 63 minutes for a full charge, or 44 minutes for 70%.
Screen Shot 2020-05-20 at 11.43.57 AM.png


Screen Shot 2020-05-20 at 11.44.46 AM.png


Screen Shot 2020-05-20 at 11.45.04 AM.png
 

dbsb3233

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I had done the same thing - went to see what that asterisk showed. Turned out to be useless.

Also interesting wording on the "around 350 miles of range per hour". Even though it works out to about the same as the 45 minutes, I wonder why the different terminology? All it does is add to the confusion. It's already confusing enough for people having to convert between WLTP and EPA miles.
 

ChasingCoral

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US site still isn't updated. The press release clearly says
"DEARBORN, Mich., May 15, 2020 – The all-new Mustang Mach-E can add an estimated average of 61 miles of range in approximately 10 minutes at an Electrify America DC fast charging station with the extended-range battery and rear-wheel drive1 – an improvement of approximately 14 miles or 30 percent versus previous estimates."

and the US website still has the old figure:

Screenshot 2020-05-20 12.50.54.png


47 miles in 10 min. for Extended Range, RWD.

At least that's consistent with the 14 mile improvement cited.
 

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I am pretty confident we are not going to get any new information on the car's true charging curve and timing until it is available for journalistic testing. There's just not much incentive for Ford to give the true initial specs out so far in advance...unless what we've been told already is as good as it's gonna get.
 

dbsb3233

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I am pretty confident we are not going to get any new information on the car's true charging curve and timing until it is available for journalistic testing. There's just not much incentive for Ford to give the true initial specs out so far in advance...unless what we've been told already is as good as it's gonna get.
Anything that has miles in it is all just estimates at this point anyway. I assume they can't do any "official" numbers for stats dependent on miles/range until they have the official EPA number.

They could do kWh, but to convert that to miles, they need that EPA test (and WLTP in Europe) to make it official. Hoping that's coming fairly soon. Don't know if they can do that on the pre-production models or whether that has to wait until the production models start rolling (the dealer demo units).

(Total side note... there's another picture of the red that looks totally different. Almost looks copper color there.)
 
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