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Mach E's Adaptive Cruise Control (without Hands-Free)

Stickboy46

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There is no evidence that FSD functions as the CEO claimed in 2017 "Soon a Model S will self drive itself across the country".
Umm ok?
Thanks for the completely irrelevant statement. Do you feel better now?
 

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There has been no indication that the OTA for hands free will be anywhere close to FSD. I haven't seen anything mentioned about auto Lane changes, auto navigating, and anything related to city driving. Then the other crazy beta features that aren't worth mentioning because they are beta.

The expectation is the paid OTA will sit it sightly better and worse than the base Autopilot. It will be able to be used hands free (so better) but only only strictly mapped highways (so worse than AP since it works on any street including city driving.)
I would suspect the reason why it has the feature set it does is to not release Beta (or unproven) software to the general public. Tesla may be able to get away with that, but most companies will not. Ford and its suppliers are going to be on the conservative side so they don't have to deal with the possible incidents of unreleased software revisions. All of these companies are running full self-driving cars around, but with their own employees, so they have the technology.

Most people don't know what that means to have software in a Beta version. Many of the failures in autopilot use seem to be people who think the car knows what it's doing, but the car is assuming everything is fine, but actually the driver needed to take control to avoid an incident (such as the recent incident in Taiwan).

If you are an actual tester of hardware/software you have to assume failure could happen at any moment in time and be ready to take control. However, only a small number of the users could get a job as a QA tester.
 

First Edition

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I ordered Mach E on day one. Throughout this process, I have assumed that Mach E's ACC (without Hands Free) will work as good as Tesla's Autopilot (without FSD). Recently, in the Hands-Free thread, there have been a few related comments on this comparison, expressing two opposing opinions. However, such comments are scattered in that thread, and there was little "coversation" going on. That's understandable, as the bulk of that thread focus on other topics.

When I raised this topic on that thread, I got one friendly reply from @Stickboy46 that he believes Mach E's ACC (without Hands Free) will ping pong instead of driving in the center of the lane, and cannot handle bends and corners. That does not match my understanding. I want to reach a conclusive answer of Yes or No on whether Mach E's ACC (without Hands Free) will work as good as Tesla's Autopilot (without FSD).

My first hand experience with ACC is very limited. I welcome people with first hand experience to chime in.
  • I did a test drive with Model 3. But it was way too short to get much insight into Tesla's Autopilot.
  • I drove a rental 2018/2019 VW Tiguan in Netherland, which I believe has lane centering as part of its ACC feature. I deliberately asserted little force on the steering wheel during highway bends and ramps, and it maneuvered well. I also believe it was able to keep itself in the center of the lane when cruising down a highway.
  • I also drove a rental Mazda CX-5 and a rental MINI Clubman. Both had ACC, but not lane centering.
I tried to read on this topic online. According to Ford's ACC page, there are 4 kinds of Ford vehicles:
  • ACC with Forward Collision Control with Brake Support
  • ACC with Stop and Go
    • (the previous bullet point plus) Can come to full stop. If completely stopped for more than 3 seconds, driver must press RES button or gas pedal to continue
    • Optional and/or standard on 2020 Fusion, Escape, F-150, Expedition
  • ACC with Stop and Go and Lane Centering
    • (the previous bullet point plus) Keep your vehicle centered in the lane
    • Optional and/or standard on 2020 Escape, Edge
  • Intelligent ACC
    • (the previous bullet point plus) Speed sign recognition, automatically adjust set speed
    • Optional and/or standard on 2020 Explorer
    • Per Mach E page, it will fall under this category.
    • Per Hands Free press release, the "3 second" threshold for "Stop and Go" is increased to 30 seconds for Mach E. It's not clear whether it applies to Hands Free only.
One more thing I want to add. If you look at the Mach E page, you'll see that it has both "Lane Keeping Assist" (under Ford Co-Pilot360 2.0) and "Intelligent ACC" (under Ford Co-Pilot 360 Assist 2.0). Note that lane centering is part of the latter, NOT the former. This got me quite confused when I started reading on this topic.

Based on my limited first hand experience and online reading, my conclusion remains that Mach E's ACC (without Hands Free) is as good as Tesla's Autopilot (without FSD). I'd be happy to be corrected.

Any one here with first hand experience on 2020 Escape, Edge, Explorer? (maybe it's also available on 2019?) Any one here with extensive first hand experience on ACC with lane centering from other manufacturers? Any one with experience on such a system in both non-Tesla and Tesla?

Ford's Lane Centering has been around since at least the 2019 model year, shown in the link below.

Ford Lane Centering video

Ford's system has Lane Centering and ACC and will also do stop and go in traffic with the 3 sec timer you mentioned.

Ford's current system is very similar to BMW's Driving Assistant Plus. What I like best about my BMW's 'autopilot' over my Tesla's autopilot is the driver can steer the car without turning autopilot off. This is a huge advantage in my opinion. BMW also has a more sophisticated driver monitoring system than Tesla, which is very rudimentary. Ford and BMW have two rear facing radar systems that allow for Cross Traffic Alert and excellent performing BLIS. My Telsa doesn't have the rear facing radars, only the shorter range ultrasonic sensors (which Ford and BMW also have).

Ford's auto parallel/perpendicular parking feature is far and away better than the systems on my Tesla and BMW both in ease of use and performance/accuracy/consistency.
 

Stickboy46

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Here is a video of Ford's system working in the city (non highway).

Lane Centering - Non Highway
That's interesting. First I've seen of that. So looks like with the base inclusion matches Autopilot and the paid OTA is in between Autopilot and FSD. That's really good to know.

I think my biggest takeaway is that Ford needs a better marketing department. Why so many different feature sets that are not advertised at all lol... Or even explained well on their website
 

ChasingCoral

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I have a 2017 Ford Fusion Energi with Ford's then-current Co-Pilot 360 including ACC. That includes lane centering which can be set either to vibrate the steering wheel when it senses the car is outside the lanes, or to turn the steering wheel and recenter the car. It's a decent feature, helpful on highways. It does not pick up the lanes if the lines are not well painted and I found the steering overcompensates; I leave that feature off but leave the vibration warning on.
Don’t forget Ford has already announced the addition of road edge detection. With that, the MME’s will help start onThe road even if the edges aren’t striped.
 
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My parents just got a 2020 Escape Titanium, which comes with almost all of the Co-Pilot 360 tech that the Mach-E will have standard. I took it out on the highway to test how well it works and found it to be quite good.

The lane centering kept the car very steady, it didn't "ping pong" back and forth in the lane. It handled highway curves well too. Adaptive cruise worked well, as you'd expect. Lane departure warnings could be adjusted to various sensitivities and either alert and/or assist. The car could essentially drive itself in its lane, it would just yell at you to put your hands on the wheel if you kept them off for a bit. It was a lot closer to standard autopilot than I was expecting.
 
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I'm pretty sure the system asked him to take over on that turn.
No, it took the turn on its own. The pop-up was to get him to put his hands back on the wheel. By default, these systems in new Fords and Lincolns will only let you take your hands off for something like 5 seconds before the warning is displayed. I found a setting to turn off that warning in the 2020 Escape though.
 
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zhackwyatt

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No, it took the turn on its own. The pop-up was to get him to put his hands back on the wheel. By default, these systems in new Fords and Lincolns will only let you take your hands off for something like 5 seconds before the warning is displayed. I found a setting to turn off that warning in the 2020 Escape though.
The impression I got was that it took the turn but wasn't happy about it.

So what does it do when it wants you to take over? Or does it not work that way because technically the car never takes over for you in the first place?
 

mattsaradan

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Don’t forget Ford has already announced the addition of road edge detection. With that, the MME’s will help start onThe road even if the edges aren’t striped.
Yep - newer system certainly better just since the 2017MY. That said, the problem I had with letting the car steer itself was it would overcompensate - like at merges - so I would either need to signal every lane shift (even from an exit only lane that curves and becomes an off ramp) or I'd be fighting the car at the worst possible time. Hopefully the MME's system addresses this; if not, still a useful system just with the vibration warning (which I ignore at off ramps).
 

mattsaradan

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According to Ford website (summarized in my original post), for 2020 model year, lane centering is only available on Escape, Edge, Explorer. I suppose it's unlikely that it was available in 2017 model year, bu got removed later.

What you're describing sound more likely lane keeping, not lane centering. With lane centering, the car should stay in the center of the lane, instead of ping pong (hit one side, and then the other side, ...). In other words, unless you assert force on the steering wheel, the car should drive itself along the lane without any vibration/nudging/sudden movement.
Ah, yes I guess that's right - is lane keep assist. It does have ability to steer itself back into lane but I gather that is not exactly the same thing as lane centering. Shows you how much the tech improves just in 3 model years.
 
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The impression I got was that it took the turn but wasn't happy about it.

So what does it do when it wants you to take over? Or does it not work that way because technically the car never takes over for you in the first place?
If you ignore the chimes, they will get louder, then adaptive cruise and lane centering will turn off, so the car will stop steering and start slowing down since you're not on the gas. This is how it worked on the Escape I tried it on at least. I'd assume it works the same way in other Ford models and Lincolns.
 

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Does the Mache have the sensors necessary for level 5 automation? I realize this is not what they are promising, just wondering what may be possible a few years down the road with updates.

How does it compare to the sensors in the Model Y?

And one more...any idea if the Mache will show the traffic it is detecting like Tesla's driving visualization?
 



 








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