OP

MachEUser

Active Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
34
Reaction score
18
Location
NJ
Vehicles
Mach E
Country flag
This was more for the EV battery under the car but I didn't see the link buried in the other posts.

I was just reading it. Just hope the 12v doesn't need to be changed. Once you take those grommets out, it is never the same. Everything jiggles at little...

12v is unfortunately a regulatory thing I believe because the larger battery should have enough power and could via a transformer power the 12v stuff.

It also seems like the top driver side lid of the frunk is in the way rather than the whole frunk. I wonder if people will cut that out or something to make it accessible. Not sure it adds anything but a cosmetic cover.
 

macchiaz-o

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jonathan
Joined
Nov 25, 2019
Messages
4,119
Reaction score
8,098
Location
Valley of the Sun
Vehicles
Premium RWD SR
Country flag
This was more for the EV battery under the car but I didn't see the link buried in the other posts.
This is a good post about battery removal. You were focusing on the high voltage battery. I thought, "I've seen this before, but where?" So I searched and found it and thought it'd be good to link to 12V battery removal as well. :)

12v is unfortunately a regulatory thing I believe because the larger battery should have enough power and could via a transformer power the 12v stuff.
From my limited understanding, lithium ion batteries don't perform well when they're very cold, compared to the AGM battery which can push electrical current even when extremely cold. So among other reasons, the 12V battery is there to power things like hazard lights and the horn, even when the HVB is temporarily too cold, or if its damaged (in an emergency stop situation).

The 12V battery also provides some energy buffer for peak demands that would otherwise require a larger DC-DC converter. Like when you're running headlights, music, wipers, glass heating wires, seat warmers, etc all at the same time temporarily.
 
OP

MachEUser

Active Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
34
Reaction score
18
Location
NJ
Vehicles
Mach E
Country flag
This is a good post about battery removal. You were focusing on the high voltage battery. I thought, "I've seen this before, but where?" So I searched and found it and thought it'd be good to link to 12V battery removal as well. :)



From my limited understanding, lithium ion batteries don't perform well when they're very cold, compared to the AGM battery which can push electrical current even when extremely cold. So among other reasons, the 12V battery is there to power things like hazard lights and the horn, even when the HVB is temporarily too cold, or if its damaged (in an emergency stop situation).

The 12V battery also provides some energy buffer for peak demands that would otherwise require a larger DC-DC converter. Like when you're running headlights, music, wipers, glass heating wires, seat warmers, etc all at the same time temporarily.
The 12v battery removal posts will be clutch to someone down the road. It is very detailed. Hopefully, without a starter and its high energy demands, the AGM battery will last a long time. Does the 12v battery also heat the Lithium battery if it is extremely cold and won't start or would you get stuck until it warms up? I'm assuming it is designed with those cold Michigan winters in mind.
 

macchiaz-o

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jonathan
Joined
Nov 25, 2019
Messages
4,119
Reaction score
8,098
Location
Valley of the Sun
Vehicles
Premium RWD SR
Country flag
The 12v battery removal posts will be clutch to someone down the road. It is very detailed. Hopefully, without a starter and its high energy demands, the AGM battery will last a long time.
I hope so, too.

Does the 12v battery also heat the Lithium battery if it is extremely cold and won't start or would you get stuck until it warms up? I'm assuming it is designed with those cold Michigan winters in mind.
I don't know. It's such a small 12V battery that I doubt it could do much to raise the temperature of the enormous battery pack. I think Ford is relying mostly on preconditioning from wall power, and from the HVB battery to its own heater, to do that.
 

SnBGC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Messages
2,393
Reaction score
4,083
Location
Phoenix
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E FE, 2021 Wrangler 4xe High Altitude
Occupation
Manager
Country flag
This was more for the EV battery under the car but I didn't see the link buried in the other posts.

I was just reading it. Just hope the 12v doesn't need to be changed. Once you take those grommets out, it is never the same. Everything jiggles at little...

12v is unfortunately a regulatory thing I believe because the larger battery should have enough power and could via a transformer power the 12v stuff.

It also seems like the top driver side lid of the frunk is in the way rather than the whole frunk. I wonder if people will cut that out or something to make it accessible. Not sure it adds anything but a cosmetic cover.
12v is required to start the computers and close the HVB contactors. If there wasn't a LVB on board then the user would have to close the contactors manually to bring the HVB online.

The only heat generators on board are the battery, the motors, the electronics and the coolant heater. All are powered by the HVB.
 

Astraea

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2021
Messages
64
Reaction score
88
Location
NY
Vehicles
MMe Premium AWD ER
Country flag
Out of curiosity, would it be possible in the future to switch out the battery for a more advanced one that could provide more range, perform better in cold weather, ect.?
 

macchiaz-o

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jonathan
Joined
Nov 25, 2019
Messages
4,119
Reaction score
8,098
Location
Valley of the Sun
Vehicles
Premium RWD SR
Country flag
Out of curiosity, would it be possible in the future to switch out the battery for a more advanced one that could provide more range, perform better in cold weather, ect.?
Possible: YES. Likely an option for most owners? I don't think so, but maybe??
 

v8318cid

Active Member
First Name
Robert
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Messages
38
Reaction score
37
Location
SC
Vehicles
20 GMC Sierra HD, 21 MMe Prm. 4x , 19 Nissan Leaf
Occupation
Information Tech
Country flag
Battery tech is constantly evolving, although there are currently only a few examples of an "upgrade" over the OEM battery. The early Nissan Leaf had (I think) a 24 kWh battery that was prone to failure after a relatively short amount of time (possibly chemistry related, but not completely sure) relative to the warranty. Initial replacements were one for one, but in recent years apparently Nissan has started offering the 30 kWh battery in its place. Not a huge jump in capacity, but probably welcomed to those loyalists who didn't want to get rid of the car. I have no doubt it required either an update to the BCM, or an updated BCM altogether.

With the direction the EV market is taking currently, I'll definitely be interested in seeing whether this becomes a thing. GM is supposedly working on a new battery system (Ultium?) that is supposed to be modular. Still waiting on the e-crate...
 

theo1000

Well-Known Member
First Name
Theo
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Messages
206
Reaction score
245
Location
Shawnee, KS
Vehicles
Mach-E 2021 IB, Audi Etron, Chevy Volt, BMW I3,
Country flag
Not until you are out of warranty, 8 years and 100,000 miles.

There are battery upgrades available for the volt where you can turn in your old core and get a reconditioned one. About $5000. The Mach-E battery is relatively easy to drop / replace or recondition. I fully expect a market for such range extending and reconditioning to spring up after warranties expire. Its just that battery warranties are so long that you will most likely sell the car before it becomes necessary.
 
OP

MachEUser

Active Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
34
Reaction score
18
Location
NJ
Vehicles
Mach E
Country flag
Out of curiosity, would it be possible in the future to switch out the battery for a more advanced one that could provide more range, perform better in cold weather, etc.?
That's what I was thinking when I saw the PDFs. I think you could have a cottage industry develop over time once these vehicles hit 100k in a few years especially if this technology overlaps with other vehicles.

We know battery technology follows something like Moore's law; over time it will be cheaper and better. So if the battery is suffering after the warranty ends and the vehicle interior, body, motors, other systems/sensors are otherwise in good shape, you can consider swapping it out for a few $k. Maybe the Mach e can get a 600-mile range in another life.
 

mburtsvt

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
343
Reaction score
445
Location
California
Vehicles
Just 1 Rapid Red Mach-E
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Just looking at the 12 volt battery removal I don't think Auto Zone will not offer free battery replacement with the purchase of a new one. Just say'ing.
 

BMT1071

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
806
Reaction score
820
Location
Glendale, AZ
Vehicles
17 Chevy Malibu, 21 Infiniti QX50, 21 MME On order
Occupation
Regional Service Manager
Country flag
Just looking at the 12 volt battery removal I don't think Auto Zone will not offer free battery replacement with the purchase of a new one. Just say'ing.
Would you want them to try?? 🤔 😂🤣
 

buzznwood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
488
Reaction score
440
Location
california
Vehicles
focus st & rs
Country flag
That's what I was thinking when I saw the PDFs. I think you could have a cottage industry develop over time once these vehicles hit 100k in a few years especially if this technology overlaps with other vehicles.

We know battery technology follows something like Moore's law; over time it will be cheaper and better. So if the battery is suffering after the warranty ends and the vehicle interior, body, motors, other systems/sensors are otherwise in good shape, you can consider swapping it out for a few $k. Maybe the Mach e can get a 600-mile range in another life.
When the last mach-e rolls of the production line and gets sold, ford are going to have to be able to replace that battery for 8 years, having a warehouse of spare cells is not going to be practical from a cost perspective, it will be cheaper to produce replacements from existing battery stock, the modular nature of the packs means that as battery tech evolves replacements will probably be made from the latest cells, so your mach-e replacements packs may end up having a smaller number of modules and a lot of empty space or offer more range due to more kwh fitting within the existing case.

How well ford have taken this into account only time will tell, but I suspect that most manufactures will have some sort of plan based around a modular size requirement that any future batteries must confirm to.
 

Advertisement





 


Advertisement
Top