Many recent posts about installing the fastest charger and why this might not be the best approach?

kdryden99

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That is the main reason why I would like to have a current set up for AC charging on the Ford Pass app and/or directly in the Sync 4A just like you can do in a Tesla. That way when you don't need much you can set it for 8 Amp and if you need a full charge then set it to 32-40 or 48 Amps. But it does not seem to be there for now, so an email to the EVteam is the thing do do. Anyone has an email address I can use?
With a smart charger you can do this. In another thread the question was asked why a smart charger? Well fir this reason and others you can set the charge rate from your phone.
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The charge rate doesn't seem to affect battery life. I think Argonne Labs tested constantly charging a Nissan Leaf using a DC charger and it didn't make a difference (the Leaf battery degraded prematurely but that had to do with the electrolytes and heat -- DC charging wasn't the issue).

So rather than worrying about charge rates just charge to 80%. That will likely make a bigger difference since Lithium cells like being operating in the middle of their charge.

There are good reasons to charge at higher AC charge rates: charging is more efficient (same number of watts devoted to the overhead but more watts) and, as mentioned, your charing window will be shorter, which can help if you are on a TOU rate plan.

If I the cost was roughly the same I'd go for the higher charge rate. But I've had my chargers for
a while -- one is an original Blink which is ten years old -- and I'm fine charging at 7.7 kW. No compelling reason to change.
 

DBC

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Point being that how we drive the vehicle is just as important to battery health as how we charge the vehicle and even how we park it in the heat.
That's a very good point.
 

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The charge rate doesn't seem to affect battery life.
Isn't that the whole reason charge curves exist though? (Slowing the charge rate as the battery fills up, so as to reduce heat that's detrimental to battery life?)
 
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Isn't that the whole reason charge curves exist though? (Slowing the charge rate as the battery fills up, so as to reduce heat that's detrimental to battery life?)
Yep.
The vehicle spend its entire life in thermal management mode. Same for an ICE vehicle.

For a BEV, It's all about managing the battery temp. Everything else is noise because it always comes down to thermal management.
 


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The charge rate doesn't seem to affect battery life. I think Argonne Labs tested constantly charging a Nissan Leaf using a DC charger and it didn't make a difference (the Leaf battery degraded prematurely but that had to do with the electrolytes and heat -- DC charging wasn't the issue).

So rather than worrying about charge rates just charge to 80%. That will likely make a bigger difference since Lithium cells like being operating in the middle of their charge.

There are good reasons to charge at higher AC charge rates: charging is more efficient (same number of watts devoted to the overhead but more watts) and, as mentioned, your charing window will be shorter, which can help if you are on a TOU rate plan.

If I the cost was roughly the same I'd go for the higher charge rate. But I've had my chargers for
a while -- one is an original Blink which is ten years old -- and I'm fine charging at 7.7 kW. No compelling reason to change.
That doesn't make sense at all since the DC charging generates heat!

Sure it wasn't the charging that killed the battery but the heat (er from charging).
 

CHeil402

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Isn't that the whole reason charge curves exist though? (Slowing the charge rate as the battery fills up, so as to reduce heat that's detrimental to battery life?)
It's not a heat issue so much as a physical property of lithium ion cells. At low state-of-charge (SOC) you charge at a constant current, when the SOC gets higher it switches to constant voltage with diminishing current.

Every charge cycle causes dendrite growth on the terminals and metal deposits which is ultimately what kills a battery.
 

2Ponies

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I think we all agree that slower charge rates are better than higher rates (all else being equal).

I agree charge and discharge have the same thermal and degradation effect on the EV battery. L1 and L2 charging is wayyyyy down on the list of things we should worry about when it comes to battery preservation.

If you really want maximum battery health then avoid DCFC and if you must, then the lowest charge rate is best. Nobody wants to hear that though. Everybody wants the fastest DCFC rate possible and battery health be damned.

High levels of regen also damages the battery. But again.....everyone wants 1 Pedal driving with max regen levels without understanding how it affects the battery.

0-60 sprint's are not kind either. I can demonstrate this on my FFE. Not that it is super quick but the principal is the same. Here in Phoenix during the summer it can be 115 degrees or more. I drive around with A/C on of course and it works fine. However, I have to be careful not to accelerate too aggressively because the battery temp will increase and then the car will redirect all the energy to the chiller for the battery and none to the passenger cabin. A/C will blow warm for 30-60 seconds or so until the battery temp stabilizes.

Point being that how we drive the vehicle is just as important to battery health as how we charge the vehicle and even how we park it in the heat.
 

2Ponies

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I have a 13 Leaf, and charge at home most of the time. I decided to keep it at 110V slow charge to prolong battery life. The miles added overnight are enough to keep me on the road for my daily commute (yes some of us still have to go to work) and local errands. I usually stay between 20% and 80% charge. For my MME I plan to do the same, keep it in the middle most of the time. Only go up to 90%+ the night before a road trip. If you do not need the higher rate of charging, why do it. Slower charging generates less heat and stress on the battery, and could lead to longer life. We really do not know everything about the battery with this being a totally new car from Ford, so why not play it safe. Save the fast charging for when needed on road trips. I know some of you will have longer commutes or different daily needs and may need to add more miles overnight, you will have to decide what works best for your MME battery.
 

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I have a 13 Leaf, and charge at home most of the time. I decided to keep it at 110V slow charge to prolong battery life. The miles added overnight are enough to keep me on the road for my daily commute (yes some of us still have to go to work) and local errands. I usually stay between 20% and 80% charge. For my MME I plan to do the same, keep it in the middle most of the time. Only go up to 90%+ the night before a road trip. If you do not need the higher rate of charging, why do it. Slower charging generates less heat and stress on the battery, and could lead to longer life. We really do not know everything about the battery with this being a totally new car from Ford, so why not play it safe. Save the fast charging for when needed on road trips. I know some of you will have longer commutes or different daily needs and may need to add more miles overnight, you will have to decide what works best for your MME battery.
Right but the difference between Level-1 and Level-2 vs Level-2 and DCFC is huge.

I wouldn't call Level-2 "fast charging" at all (even at 48 amps) and I really doubt it "harms" the battery any more than Level-1 charging does.

All 3 of my plugins have always Level-2 charged and none have displayed any battery degredation for as long as they were in my service.
 

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I have a 13 Leaf, and charge at home most of the time. I decided to keep it at 110V slow charge to prolong battery life. The miles added overnight are enough to keep me on the road for my daily commute (yes some of us still have to go to work) and local errands. I usually stay between 20% and 80% charge. For my MME I plan to do the same, keep it in the middle most of the time. Only go up to 90%+ the night before a road trip. If you do not need the higher rate of charging, why do it. Slower charging generates less heat and stress on the battery, and could lead to longer life. We really do not know everything about the battery with this being a totally new car from Ford, so why not play it safe. Save the fast charging for when needed on road trips. I know some of you will have longer commutes or different daily needs and may need to add more miles overnight, you will have to decide what works best for your MME battery.
Here is the warranty from Ford.com

Ford Mustang Mach-E Many recent posts about installing the fastest charger and why this might not be the best approach? Screenshot (42)


If there is a problem with using a charger and your battery starts to degenerate it is covered by the Ford warranty and will be replaced.
 

dbsb3233

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Here is the warranty from Ford.com

Ford Mustang Mach-E Many recent posts about installing the fastest charger and why this might not be the best approach? Screenshot (42)


If there is a problem with using a charger and your battery starts to degenerate it is covered by the Ford warranty and will be replaced.
While true, losing something like 25% or 28% (short of the warranty replacement) would be a serious disappointment. Thus part of why some want to try and minimize the degradation.
 

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With a smart charger you can do this. In another thread the question was asked why a smart charger? Well fir this reason and others you can set the charge rate from your phone.
Yes but if you could do it directly from the car or Ford Pass you would'nt need to pay extra for a smart charger and just go with a Grizzl-E.
 

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I usually stay between 20% and 80% charge. For my MME I plan to do the same, keep it in the middle most of the time. Only go up to 90%+ the night before a road trip.
How are you going to get from 20% or so to 90% in the single night before a long trip using an L1 EVSE?
 

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With a smart charger you can do this. In another thread the question was asked why a smart charger? Well fir this reason and others you can set the charge rate from your phone.
I'm not sure why this isn't an exposed setting in the car. The car is capable of doing this because it does it every time you plug it in. The EVSE tells the car how much current to pull, the car then charges at that speed if the onboard charger is capable. For example, Tesla will let you set current in 1 Amp increments from the screen on AC sources.

For winter it's actually better to use the higher AC charge speeds. It generates a little heat so the car has to waste less energy on heating the battery to safely charge it.

For lithium the rule of thumb is generally 0.8C charge rates or less unless otherwise stated.

[Now, the following is super simplified, grains of salt please.]

If we do a little rounding the actual capacity of the battery is roughly 100kWh. Assuming a 400v system, that's 250Ah of capacity. So 1C = 250A charge rate, 0.8C is 200A. Our wall charger, at 48A? ~0.2C. So actually very nice to the battery, just a tickle of current.

Generally speaking, don't leave the battery >90%. Don't use the bottom 10% at all if you can avoid it. The Mach E has built in buffers, so it's less of a concern. Be nice to a cold battery if the car doesn't force you to (like Teslas, and unlike our Spark).

Edits: Clarity, fixed some fat-fingering.
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