Meet a Ford Engineer Today

[stmache]

At a car show I was at today in Utica, NY, a young guy walked up to me and presented a small Mach-E Pony Logo sticker and introduced himself as a Ford Engineer who works on the Mach-E team. After talking for a few minutes I found out he had his Mach-E out in the parking lot nearby.

He had an Iconic Silver Premium with Extended Battery which was the other color I was considering before my wife indicated she preferred IB.

In talking with him, he shared some graphs on the data they worked with on the Mach-E battery life. He showed me a chart indicating if an owner charged his Mach-E to 100% on L2 charging only, the battery would only degrade 5% over 5 years. Less degradation at 90% and 80%. He said Ford was assuming owners would only DC Fast Charge a couple of times a month on average over the length of ownership. The more DC Fast Charging the faster the battery pack will degrade. I believe that is common knowledge and applicable to all current EV battery tech.

Sponsored

 

[kltye]

Did you badger him on the charging curve with DCFC, and if they have any plans to improve it?

 

[TJ-Mach-e]

He said Ford was assuming owners would only DC Fast Charge a couple of times a month on average over the length of ownership.

Did you badger him on the charging curve with DCFC, and if they have any plans to improve it?

I would say that the Answer is probably NO they do not have any plans to improve it!
I would love to be proven wrong but I am starting to feel as though I am probably right.

 

[Jimrpa]

Did you badger him on the charging curve with DCFC, and if they have any plans to improve it?

I would say that “badgering” is not the best way to win friends and get information.

 

[MachEnation]

Great write up! Whatever nits we have I think it’s clear the Ford team really put a lot of work and thought into the MME and I’m sure they are proud of the work they did.

More importantly, the engineer that works on it actually OWNS the car. That says more than anything else.

 

[machefan]

At a car show I was at today in Utica, NY, a young guy walked up to me and presented a small Mach-E Pony Logo sticker and introduced himself as a Ford Engineer who works on the Mach-E team. After talking for a few minutes I found out he had his Mach-E out in the parking lot nearby.

View attachment 33957

His Iconic Silver Premium with Extended Battery was the other color I was considering before my wife indicated she preferred IB.

In talking with him, he shared some graphs on the data they worked with on the Mach-E battery life. He showed me a chart indicating if an owner charged his Mach-E to 100% on L2 charging only, the battery would only degrade 5% over 5 years. Less degradation at 90% and 80%. He said Ford was assuming owners would only DC Fast Charge a couple of times a month on average over the length of ownership. The more DC Fast Charging the faster the battery pack will degrade. I believe that is common knowledge and applicable to all current EV battery tech.

Moral of the story, don’t DC fast charge unless necessary such as a long trip.

 

[stmache]

Moral of the story, don’t DC fast charge unless necessary such as a long trip.

That is basically what he said to me in a nutshell.

 

[stmache]

Did you badger him on the charging curve with DCFC, and if they have any plans to improve it?

No but I could guess his answer by the way he talked about charging the batteries. I said couldn't I just charge it to 100% every night since there's a 11 Kwh buffer? He said he'd recommend 80% if you didn't need the range on a daily basis. As has been postulated a few times here, Ford is being VERY careful with the battery packs until they get a lot more data. So, I'd guess, he would have told me "no" on the question of improving the Fast Charging curve.

He also said, for those thinking Ford will lower that buffer, it will not happen. I believe he reads this forum, too. Hi!

 

[BadgerGreg]

Great write up! Whatever nits we have I think it’s clear the Ford team really put a lot of work and thought into the MME and I’m sure they are proud of the work they did.

More importantly, the engineer that works on it actually OWNS the car. That says more than anything else.

Most of the Ford engineers actually short-term lease their cars (1- or 2-year leases), as they tend to cycle through them pretty quickly and they get really favorable lease terms. Lots of Ford engineers here in SE Michigan; although I can say that the MME engineers I've met are all driving MMEs, so that is indeed a GOOD sign.

 

[kltye]

No but I could guess his answer by the way he talked about charging the batteries. I said couldn't I just charge it to 100% every night since there's a 11 Kwh buffer? He said he'd recommend 80% if you didn't need the range on a daily basis. As has been postulated a few times here, Ford is being VERY careful with the battery packs until they get a lot more data. So, I'd guess, he would have told me "no" on the question of improving the Fast Charging curve.

He also said, for those thinking Ford will lower that buffer, it will not happen. I believe he reads this forum, too. Hi!

I do appreciate that Ford appears to be prioritizing battery lifespan, but li-ion batteries aren't an especially new technology, especially since they're using LG Chem cells, rather than something built from scratch in-house. Lots of other car OEMs (maybe even all of them?) seem to be fine charging their packs above 1C for a longer part of their charging curves, and certainly don't drop the speeds to ~0.1C once they hit 80%.

Yes I know, I'm either a) preaching to the choir here; or b) preaching to those who don't mind, but this is certainly the only part of the car that's annoying to me - even PaaK, which doesn't even work on any of my phones, is as annoying!

 

[Mach-Lee]

I have a theory about the DC charge rates. So I think everybody knows it charges at 150-160 kW for only a couple minutes and then drops down, which is really strange. I think it does this as a short test, just so the engineers can collect data and flush out any weak packs. Once they get enough data back and think it's safe, then they'll extend the 150 kW timeout longer. Nothing better than real world charging data, this is a slick way to get it without risking too much. Data is probably provided by Electrify America in addition to telemetrics. This is probably also why we get some free EA charging.

I think the Ford engineers would appreciate if everyone did some L3 charging at EA a couple times to help them out with their data. Might shorten how long we have to wait for the curve to improve...

 

[db4z]

I have a theory about the DC charge rates. So I think everybody knows it charges at 150-160 kW for only a couple minutes and then drops down, which is really strange. I think it does this as a short test, just so the engineers can collect data and flush out any weak packs. Once they get enough data back and think it's safe, then they'll extend the 150 kW timeout longer. Nothing better than real world charging data, this is a slick way to get it without risking too much. Data is probably provided by Electrify America in addition to telemetrics. This is probably also why we get some free EA charging.

I think the Ford engineers would appreciate if everyone did some L3 charging at EA a couple times to help them out with their data. Might shorten how long we have to wait for the curve to improve...

I think a more plausible explanation is charging at 150kW gets the batteries to max safe charging temps really quick and then power is dropped to maintain a safe charge temp. Charging at 150kw for longer would likely overheat the batteries and shorten their life more than what Ford seems acceptable for meeting warranty targets. I'm sure better cooling would result in faster charging, but at more cost, weight, and likely less room for batteries, meaning less total range. Everything in engineering is a trade off and no car will ever be perfect for everyone's wants or needs.

 

[Pibbman]

No but I could guess his answer by the way he talked about charging the batteries. I said couldn't I just charge it to 100% every night since there's a 11 Kwh buffer? He said he'd recommend 80% if you didn't need the range on a daily basis. As has been postulated a few times here, Ford is being VERY careful with the battery packs until they get a lot more data. So, I'd guess, he would have told me "no" on the question of improving the Fast Charging curve.

He also said, for those thinking Ford will lower that buffer, it will not happen. I believe he reads this forum, too. Hi!

interesting that he says 80% rather than the 90% in the manual says. I am wondering how much of a degradation they found between 80% and 90%. It must still be sizeable to recommend that over 90%.

 

[silverelan]

I think a more plausible explanation is charging at 150kW gets the batteries to max safe charging temps really quick and then power is dropped to maintain a safe charge temp. Charging at 150kw for longer would likely overheat the batteries and shorten their life more than what Ford seems acceptable for meeting warranty targets. I'm sure better cooling would result in faster charging, but at more cost, weight, and likely less room for batteries, meaning less total range. Everything in engineering is a trade off and no car will ever be perfect for everyone's wants or needs.

Presumably the GT/GTPE has superior cooling. Kyle Connor got the 4X and CA Route 1 to thermally throttle themselves pretty easily (for his driving skills) but the GTs are supposed to overcome that limitation. So maybe they can do something different with the GT charging?

 

[dbsb3233]

He showed me a chart indicating if an owner charged his Mach-E to 100% on L2 charging only, the battery would only degrade 5% over 5 years.

Since DCFC drops to L2-level power at 80% anyway, I presume it's really no different whether charging beyond 80% to 100% on L2 vs DCFC.

Although 10-12kW is on the higher end of the L2 power level, so maybe that has slightly more impact.

Sponsored