Mileage for Extended Range Mach-E Models Revealed in EPA Emissions Certifications

[sockmeister]

I'm a Tesla Model 3 LR RWD owner, but I'm excited about all future EVs. I thought I'd share some real world experience in this thread that may (or may not) make you feel a bit better about these EPA ranges.

My car is rated for 325 miles. However, after 16,000 miles, my "full tank" is really more like 300-310 miles (due to degradation that happens early in all EVs. My lifetime consumption puts my real world range at around 283 miles from 100% to 0%. This includes a mix of city and high speed highway driving, a mild winter, and summer weather (live in north Alabama). So, it's a bit lower than the rated range.

Realistically, if you're on a road trip, you're gonna charge between 10-80% because it's where you'll see the fastest charging speeds. In the winter, you can also knock off 15% or so in my climate. So worst case scenario in my car, you're at (0.7*283*.85) 168 miles. At 70-75 mph, that's almost 2 1/2 hours between stops, which is just about all I can tolerate. And you can go a bit further if your destination is within the usable range (more like 210-240 miles) and you can just level 2 charge at the end. What's actually more important is the speed at which you can recharge between stops, if needed.

Even if the Mach E is rated at 288 miles, you're still probably looking at 150 miles between fast charging stop on a road trip, even in the worst conditions. In the real world, it's never been an issue for me, and I doubt it would be for 90-95% of drivers.

If you're road trip warrior that can drive for 4 hours at a time and doesn't want to stop for more than 5 minutes on breaks, sure, you'll be disappointed. You probably should also take it easy and enjoy the trip though.

Thanks. It's nice to see that perspective.
And welcome.

I typically make a drive from SE Pennsylvania to mid-New Hampshire in winter as my biggest road trip of the year. That's about a 7 1/2 hour drive and about 500 miles.
In the Mach-E, I can foresee that taking at least 3 charging stops based on your assessment.
If it's about 30 minutes per stop, I can tolerate that. In an ICE car we stop once to refuel and that takes about 15 minutes.

It'll be a transition for sure. But it won't be intolerable at least.

Sponsored

 

[timbop]

I'm a Tesla Model 3 LR RWD owner, but I'm excited about all future EVs. I thought I'd share some real world experience in this thread that may (or may not) make you feel a bit better about these EPA ranges.

My car is rated for 325 miles. However, after 16,000 miles, my "full tank" is really more like 300-310 miles (due to degradation that happens early in all EVs. My lifetime consumption puts my real world range at around 283 miles from 100% to 0%. This includes a mix of city and high speed highway driving, a mild winter, and summer weather (live in north Alabama). So, it's a bit lower than the rated range.

Realistically, if you're on a road trip, you're gonna charge between 10-80% because it's where you'll see the fastest charging speeds. In the winter, you can also knock off 15% or so in my climate. So worst case scenario in my car, you're at (0.7*283*.85) 168 miles. At 70-75 mph, that's almost 2 1/2 hours between stops, which is just about all I can tolerate. And you can go a bit further if your destination is within the usable range (more like 210-240 miles) and you can just level 2 charge at the end. What's actually more important is the speed at which you can recharge between stops, if needed.

Even if the Mach E is rated at 288 miles, you're still probably looking at 150 miles between fast charging stop on a road trip, even in the worst conditions. In the real world, it's never been an issue for me, and I doubt it would be for 90-95% of drivers.

If you're road trip warrior that can drive for 4 hours at a time and doesn't want to stop for more than 5 minutes on breaks, sure, you'll be disappointed. You probably should also take it easy and enjoy the trip though.

Fully appreciate that perspective, and it makes a lot of sense to me. Since I decided to the the RWD ER model, I am not worried about 12 miles in range. What concerns me more is the efficiency - not only because lower efficiency means longer stops on the road, but also because lower efficiency means a larger expense all the time. It's not just about me; I am getting solar put in so the direct expense isn't as big of an issue. The bigger picture is that EV's are going to require a huge expansion in both electricity generation and the infrastructure to move that electricity. It also means a tight supply of battery components is that much more strained. At 3mi/kwh efficiency (or below for the AWD) the MME's drain on those resources is 30% higher than the model Y. That's a huge difference considering most OEM's are in the same ballpark with their SUV's. Granted it is the OEM's first time out and therefore understandable, but they can't be complacent about improving. A few hundred thousand less efficient cars is OK, but once those numbers get into the millions the impact is significant.

 

[1pt21Gigawatts]

Yes, those are official until they are superceded by later results. Highly likely that will happen, since I'm sure the keepers of the Ford website are fully able to get the site updated in 3 months if those were truly the final numbers. Please hold any FordPass jokes, thanks in advance.

They haven’t updated the white interior steering wheel images!! (Unless the wheel is still white, which I hope is true. The white wheel is the best part of that interior color variant)

 

[Shayne]

submissions to EPA are public information.

Most likely there is back and forth and if Ford wanted it held for a re-submission it would have been held. Dec 7th is coming pretty quick and it was noted that the government agencies were a slow cog. They just built it up that they were going to blow by their estimates. They submitted official results; but they are not really official results.

 

[Metal_Horses]

If you don't need that 30 miles 99.9% of the time then that logic applies to the ER battery which is why I went with the SR battery. That extra 60 miles wasn't worth $5k to me.

 

[BazF]

I'm a Tesla Model 3 LR RWD owner, but I'm excited about all future EVs. I thought I'd share some real world experience in this thread that may (or may not) make you feel a bit better about these EPA ranges.

My car is rated for 325 miles. However, after 16,000 miles, my "full tank" is really more like 300-310 miles (due to degradation that happens early in all EVs. My lifetime consumption puts my real world range at around 283 miles from 100% to 0%. This includes a mix of city and high speed highway driving, a mild winter, and summer weather (live in north Alabama). So, it's a bit lower than the rated range.

Realistically, if you're on a road trip, you're gonna charge between 10-80% because it's where you'll see the fastest charging speeds. In the winter, you can also knock off 15% or so in my climate. So worst case scenario in my car, you're at (0.7*283*.85) 168 miles. At 70-75 mph, that's almost 2 1/2 hours between stops, which is just about all I can tolerate. And you can go a bit further if your destination is within the usable range (more like 210-240 miles) and you can just level 2 charge at the end. What's actually more important is the speed at which you can recharge between stops, if needed.

Even if the Mach E is rated at 288 miles, you're still probably looking at 150 miles between fast charging stop on a road trip, even in the worst conditions. In the real world, it's never been an issue for me, and I doubt it would be for 90-95% of drivers.

If you're road trip warrior that can drive for 4 hours at a time and doesn't want to stop for more than 5 minutes on breaks, sure, you'll be disappointed. You probably should also take it easy and enjoy the trip though.

I thought Tesla M3 LR were all AWD?
Anyway your points seem realistic and valid. I'm likely joining Tesla club now - even though still have reservation for Mach E. Here in UK the Mustang Mach E AWD ER range is considerably more costly - more like the LR performance Tesla...but without the performance..or range.
I had my eye instead on the SR RWD Mustang as this was far more affordable - even slightly cheaper than model 3 SR+.
However originally I had expected that the 230 mile range was being conservative -- I mean 230 miles from a 77kwH battery?! when the model 3 does similar with only 56kwh. In addition the Kia e-niro gets 280 miles quoted range and 240miles+ realworld range at continuous highway speed with 64kwh.
So I expected EPA scores to bump this up from 230 target estimates - perhaps more so than the acceleration and power had been bumped up. But now the ER Mach E rating has revealed as going opposite way I expect the SR will follow also. That means at highway speed the ability to do a 180 mile round trip day to Lake district from my house - one I take often - without hassle of stopping to charge each time is likely gone - at least outside of summer.
All in all disappointing as I like the looks and character of the Mustang and the fact it not a sedan. The Tesla I have driven, so know how it is - it's certainly a good drive and effiicent. I just wish it wasnt so anodyne and characterless.

 

[dbsb3233]

If you don't need that 30 miles 99.9% of the time then that logic applies to the ER battery which is why I went with the SR battery. That extra 60 miles wasn't worth $5k to me.

That's a great point. If a few dozen extra miles of range didn't matter to people, no one would spend the extra $5000 for the ER battery. Yet the stats here show that 79% of the people did.

 

[KAustin]

That's a great point. If a few dozen extra miles of range didn't matter to people, no one would spend the extra $5000 for the ER battery. Yet the stats here show that 79% of the people did.

That's because people want the extra range and to be able to use the heat or a/c? Turn them on and how much of the 230 mile range will you have left? Time will tell.

 

[Metal_Horses]

That's a great point. If a few dozen extra miles of range didn't matter to people, no one would spend the extra $5000 for the ER battery. Yet the stats here show that 79% of the people did.

It's a luxury take for sure. I was late to the Mach-e game. I reserved a Bronco on 7/14/2020 as I have been waiting (And saving) 4 years for this.

A week later I'm looking at the Mach-e pricing and knowing the $7,500 will go away in a year or so, I was amazed at how low the price was so I went with an AWD Premium SR. With A-plan and hopefully this $2,500 rebate, I'll be maybe a hair under $40k?? A perfect Daily Driver vehicle to replace our Fusion Energi.

 

[Metal_Horses]

That's because people want the extra range and to be able to use the heat or a/c? Turn them on and how much of the 230 mile range will you have left? Time will tell.

That's the big unknown for me, how does the heat affect the range. On my Energi, the A/C doesn't affect the range much but the heat KILLS it. So I got used to heated seats and steering wheel.

 

[KAustin]

That's the big unknown for me, how does the heat affect the range. On my Energi, the A/C doesn't affect the range much but the heat KILLS it. So I got used to heated seats and steering wheel.

Getting the cars in winter, we'll find out pretty quickly.

 

[SteveUk]

That's a great point. If a few dozen extra miles of range didn't matter to people, no one would spend the extra $5000 for the ER battery. Yet the stats here show that 79% of the people did.

£10000 here in the UK which is approx 25% extra and also included the panaromic roof , parking assist etc

Approx £5k too much

 

[dbsb3233]

It's a luxury take for sure. I was late to the Mach-e game. I reserved a Bronco on 7/14/2020 as I have been waiting (And saving) 4 years for this.

A week later I'm looking at the Mach-e pricing and knowing the $7,500 will go away in a year or so, I was amazed at how low the price was so I went with an AWD Premium SR. With A-plan and hopefully this $2,500 rebate, I'll be maybe a hair under $40k?? A perfect Daily Driver vehicle to replace our Fusion Energi.

That was originally our plan too. We'll continue to have 2 cars (an Escape as the other), so paying $5000 extra just to take the MME on a few road trips/yr just didn't seem worth it. We were just gonna make it a great around-home car, which is the vast majority of our driving anyway (~48 weeks/year).

We're only getting the ER now because an inheritance dropped in our laps and we decided to splurge. But if not for that, we'd probably save the $5000. Hard to justify that big of a $$ difference for 60 miles.

But now that we're getting the ER, we'll try a few road trips. It'll be more compromising than the Escape, but we'll try the "frequent stop" thing and see if we can get used to it. We are retired now. ?

 

[Metal_Horses]

That was originally our plan too. We'll continue to have 2 cars (an Escape as the other), so paying $5000 extra just to take the MME on a few road trips/yr just didn't seem worth it. We were just gonna make it a great around-home car, which is the vast majority of our driving anyway (~48 weeks/year).

We're only getting the ER now because an inheritance dropped in our laps and we decided to splurge. But if not for that, we'd probably save the $5000. Hard to justify that big of a $$ difference for 60 miles.

But now that we're getting the ER, we'll try a few road trips. It'll be more compromising than the Escape, but we'll try the "frequent stop" thing and see if we can get used to it. We are retired now. ?

That's great! Believe me, I WANT the ER battery especially when I saw the 0-60 performance would be better, but I'm holding firm on the $5k savings, which usually I'm not good at doing ?

 

[timbop]

I thought Tesla M3 LR were all AWD?
Anyway your points seem realistic and valid. I'm likely joining Tesla club now - even though still have reservation for Mach E. Here in UK the Mustang Mach E AWD ER range is considerably more costly - more like the LR performance Tesla...but without the performance..or range.
I had my eye instead on the SR RWD Mustang as this was far more affordable - even slightly cheaper than model 3 SR+.
However originally I had expected that the 230 mile range was being conservative -- I mean 230 miles from a 77kwH battery?! when the model 3 does similar with only 56kwh. In addition the Kia e-niro gets 280 miles quoted range and 240miles+ realworld range at continuous highway speed with 64kwh.
So I expected EPA scores to bump this up from 230 target estimates - perhaps more so than the acceleration and power had been bumped up. But now the ER Mach E rating has revealed as going opposite way I expect the SR will follow also. That means at highway speed the ability to do a 180 mile round trip day to Lake district from my house - one I take often - without hassle of stopping to charge each time is likely gone - at least outside of summer.
All in all disappointing as I like the looks and character of the Mustang and the fact it not a sedan. The Tesla I have driven, so know how it is - it's certainly a good drive and effiicent. I just wish it wasnt so anodyne and characterless.

I was disheartened by this initial document as well, but I think it is premature to assume it is the "final" word. Given that Ford has been insistent before and after this came out that they would meet their targets, I think it makes sense to give them the benefit of doubt that they will. It's only a few more weeks now, so you might as well hold off until you have the actual number to make a decision. You never know, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Sponsored