1pt21Gigawatts

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The extra thirty miles of range will definitely be insignificant 99.9% of the time, and that's being generous. Let's walk through the math.

For starters, 90% of the time you're not driving more than a hundred miles. For the remaining 10% or more likely 5% of the time, let's assume you're going more than 250 miles.

The math is clear that for this 5%-10% of the time and extra 30 miles won't make a difference. Since chargers are located 70 miles apart on average, the critical distance would be 70 miles. You will need to stop once regardless of those thirty miles.

The only way you get a different result is to come up with a hypothetical, which you've done, that you have just enough range to get to AC charger at the destination. But in this case the car with more range will actually take LONGER to charge. This follows because the vehicle with the slightly shorter range will have charged at a much faster rate than the vehicle with more range. So rationally if you had the vehicle with the longer range you'd stop and use the DC charger rather than continuing and using the AC charger.

You can make a further assumption, which I think you have, that the L2 charger would be located where you were spending the night or something. But that assumption doesn't really change the equation. Most L2 chargers will give you 10 miles/hour. You get to your destination, go to dinner, come back, plug in, and go to sleep. Next morning you're ready to go. Oh wait, you only have 100 miles. of range. Guess you'll have to spend another day waiting for the car to charge. As opposed to the driver of the vehicle with the shorter range who, having gotten to the destination with almost a full charge, plugged into the same charger but is ready to go.

Bottom line is that 30 miles of range for the MME is a throwaway. Were it otherwise I would have gone for more range rather than more performance, but it's not so I didn't. LOL Obviously at some point more range would be useful. I'd put it at 100 miles but a reasonable argument could put it at 70-80 miles. But 30 miles? No. Just is never gong to matter.

FWIW I'm confident that in the first few years I will get at least 230 miles of range from a AWD ER MME. Would I like over 300 miles? Sure. Do I care if the 230 miles was 260 miles? Not really, not the least because range depends on many factors, including how you drive. If I need more range I'll just let my wife drive -- she gets more range that I do. Problem solved!
Can we all stop trying to dismiss the range as insignificant?? I get that some people would be satisfied driving a Nissan Leaf and that there’s a number of them here, but the proportion of customers satisfied by that is not nearly as large as the proportion of customers who are not.

Maybe the car started on the top of Pikes Peak? ?
Infinite rannggeee
 
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dbsb3233

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The range-o-meter is misleading without programming the navigation system and probably without significant data points from past driving techniques. There’s also the possibility that the vehicle is actually a bit more efficient at higher speeds than we might think. Not 100=30* more efficient, but more efficient at high speeds than we’ve thought to this point.
Oh sure. That's just all well beyond what I was referring to. I was simply trying to clarify why it would raise a red flag to see the range meter go from 300 to just 270 knowing 100 were actually driven. I could see that being 210, or 190, due to driving variables. But not 270 (counting 100 miles driven as just 30).

I still suspect that's not what the initially described scenario actually meant to imply.
 

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? Just leave the turn guidance up on the Nav display and it shows what you'll get to your destination with--very accurately. Not buried at all if you don't want it to be.
What I mean is, the graph is buried. It shows projected remaining charge along the entire route and is extremely informative.
 

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A gauge showing remaining range based on long term historical data isn't meaningless, it merely shows what range you could achieve given optimum conditions. You apply your own penalty.
I've always wonder how long of a history cars use in their live projection calculations. Like for instance the meter on ICE cars that tells you how many "miles to E" of gas you have left. Is the MPG assumption based on the entire driving history of the car? Just the current tank of gas? The last 10 miles of driving? 100 miles? 1000 miles? Makes a big difference.

And the same issue applies to BEVs, except it's 10x more important (since chargers are far rarer and precious). The general range number (not a calculated route) needs to use an MPK (miles/kWh) assumption. How much car history is it using in calculating that average?
 
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dbsb3233

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I think you are misunderstanding how you use the -guess-o-meter- in relation to the range discussion. Say you have driven 100 miles (highway) and still have 170 miles on the gom and someones ask you how much is the range of your MME, you answer about 270 miles under these driving conditions....but when mostly doing city driving it would be more like 350+
This is what I was referring to -- the way the scenario was written, it suggested the display shows 270 left, not 170. But I'm guessing the way you described it is what he really meant, that the display was actually showing 170 left at that point (after 100 miles driven), and he really meant it adds up to 270 miles of range.

I think this is all just a misunderstanding based on mistaken syntax.
 

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Oh sure. That's just all well beyond what I was referring to. I was simply trying to clarify why it would raise a red flag to see the range meter go from 300 to just 270 knowing 100 were actually driven. I could see that being 210, or 190, due to driving variables. But not 270 (counting 100 miles driven as just 30).

I still suspect that's not what the initially described scenario actually meant to imply.
It is highly unlikely that the car displayed 270 miles left after driving 100 miles in this scenario. It is far likelier that he misspoke and meant that the car displayed 170 mi remaining after 100 mi drive, giving an actual range of 270 miles under those circumstances
 

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I've always wonder how long of a history cars use in their live projection calculations. Like for instance the meter on ICE cars that tells you how many "miles to E" of gas you have left. Is the MPG assumption based on the entire driving history of the car? Just the current tank of gas? The last 10 miles of driving? 100 miles? 1000 miles? Makes a big difference.
In my wife’s van, I believe it’s based on a fixed MPG, because a full tank always returns the same number regardless of how the vehicle was driven.
 

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In my wife’s van, I believe it’s based on a fixed MPG, because a full tank always returns the same number regardless of how the vehicle was driven.
So one permanent, pre-loaded number for the vehicle? Interesting.

I'm pretty sure our 2013 Escape changes dynamically. I don't really track it, but I remember being surprised at seeing it showing 400+ for a rare time on a recent road trip. Normally it shows something around 360+ upon a fill-up around town.
 
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Ford has said this is the test for the emissions certificate. Given your example, the test could be for the GT, correct?
Probably not - the list of model coverage is both inside the CSI, and also the listing for the documents:
Ford Mustang Mach-E Mileage for Extended Range Mach-E Models Revealed in EPA Emissions Certifications 1605365048252


So notice that the RWD Route 1 is called out separately in addition to just the regular RWD extended range. The GT with different motor power and calibrations would be covered with a separate CSI.
 
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Can we all stop trying to dismiss the range as insignificant?? I get that some people would be satisfied driving a Nissan Leaf and that there’s a number of them here, but the proportion of custome

Infinite rannggeee
It's not so much people insisting as it is sales numbers demonstrating. If 30 miles of range truly mattered, sales for the AWD Premium -- which has 30 miles less range than the RWD Premium -- would be lower than sales of the RWD Premium and much lower than sales of the CA Route 1. This isn't the case, so the fact that people are paying more for 30 miles less range should be illuminating. Out of curiosity, if you've ordered a MME, what model have you ordered?

This fact aside, let's agree that the MME will hit (or exceed) the stated range targets and that infinite range would be great. The latter being so great that God gave us DC chargers. LOL
 

1pt21Gigawatts

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It's not so much people insisting as it is sales numbers demonstrating. If 30 miles of range truly mattered, sales for the AWD Premium -- which has 30 miles less range than the RWD Premium -- would be lower than sales of the RWD Premium and much lower than sales of the CA Route 1. This isn't the case, so the fact that people are paying more for 30 miles less range should be illuminating. Out of curiosity, if you've ordered a MME, what model have you ordered?

This fact aside, let's agree that the MME will hit (or exceed) the stated range targets and that infinite range would be great. The latter being so great that God gave us DC chargers. LOL
The sales numbers for EV‘s don’t include the hundreds of thousands of people who laugh at them and don’t even consider them viable because of the range numbers, we are just the very few that would even consider it, and some of us are on the edge.

I have the extended range, all wheel drive. Because I live in the Northeast and could never operate with less than 270 miles of range, and even then the lackluster range is forcing me to keep my old Toyota for road trips. And that’s two insurances. Let alone the fact that I will lose 30% in the winter with no heat pump.
 
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So, here is a picture from yesterday's tour. If my math is correct, it would indicate that the range on this particular ER AWD on this day and at this moment in time would be 275 miles. Exceeding the target in a Pre-production build. That said, this car had also been sitting with some battery drain for at least 4 hours.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Mileage for Extended Range Mach-E Models Revealed in EPA Emissions Certifications 20201113_143941


How many of you have taken this much time to speculate over unofficial EPA estimates when buying your previous cars even if they were other BEVs?

Official numbers will be posted on the EPAs website and on your sticker. The reporting is for a test. One test. More tests are being done. Whether or not Ford is being authentic about why the test was done remains to be seen.
 

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Probably not - the list of model coverage is both inside the CSI, and also the listing for the documents:
Ford Mustang Mach-E Mileage for Extended Range Mach-E Models Revealed in EPA Emissions Certifications 20201113_143941


So notice that the RWD Route 1 is called out separately in addition to just the regular RWD extended range. The GT with different motor power and calibrations would be covered with a separate CSI.
Thanks for the info. Seems to answer the question.

So here is another question: At this point it's clear the MME will hit the range targets. Ford has suggested the test scores for emissions aren't entirely relevant for the EPA range. Assuming the EPA range is in fact equal or greater than the targeted range -- which is a good assumption -- how you explain the discrepancy?
 

dbsb3233

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If 30 miles of range truly mattered, sales for the AWD Premium -- which has 30 miles less range than the RWD Premium -- would be lower than sales of the RWD Premium and much lower than sales of the CA Route 1.
No, that just means AWD matters even more for people who drive in locations that get snow and ice.
Sponsored

 
 




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