Mileage Graphic for Future Cold Weather Complaints

AllenXS

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Driving it everyday in the cold of Canada.
Getting a range of 260 miles in our cold winter of Vancouver.

The stress o meter says about 185 miles.
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SpaceEVDriver

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Driving it everyday in the cold of Canada.
Getting a range of 260 miles in our cold winter of Vancouver.

The stress o meter says about 185 miles.
My stress-o-meter says 185 miles right now, with 90% charge. According to my thermometer, it's -2 C outside where the car is parked. I have no doubt the estimated range is low by at least 100 miles.
 

SnBGC

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Yes, that’s correct. Even in summer the GOM is very pessimistic.
Mine has historically been quite accurate or slightly on the optimistic side. Mostly accurate though.

20220302_065453.jpg


20220301_175903.jpg
 

Romano

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Mine has historically been quite accurate or slightly on the optimistic side. Mostly accurate though.

20220302_065453.jpg


20220301_175903.jpg
I have the same experience. My GOM is literally like 95% accurate.

I agree with most here; range in winter (even in mild Dutch winter - around freezing point) takes a big hit. It reduces range quite significantly. I need to admit I have the heat running all the time, as I don't want to compromise on comfort. Nor do I think one would need to for a car that costs close to $70K (SR AWD).

I guess a heat pump would have been nice for the colder climates. I read about some dramatic efficiency improvements on the Polestar 2 when that got a heat pump. Not so much on the Tesla's, but I guess their non-heat pump efficiency was already quite good.

Otherwise an amazing car! Would still recommend it to anyone.
 

Jimbo

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I am ? percent with you on this, don't get me wrong. I have a neighbor with a Tesla and they get about the same range as me in the winter. 150 miles. The funny thing is, they have the extended range ? ?. I just think that the manufacturer needs to be more, how do I say, honest, about the range of the battery in cold temperatures. We didn't get above freezing the entire month of January. It's brutal on the battery. I would not recommend any EV in cold climates if you don't have a garage. Full stop. You also need to trickle charge 120v, 3 kw per hour. It always need to be plugged in when not in use. Period. It's just a lot to deal with. However, and I happy I don't have to pay $4 per gallon. You betcha. Is the the funnest car I have ever driven? Absolutely. Does Ford need to improve their battery technology?You bet!
Your arguments in this thread have been all over the place

"[The MME range] is one of the worst"
"You all need to get real about the Ford battery technology"
"Tesla and they get about the same range as me in the winter"

So Ford battery technology is atrocious, yet your car is getting the same range as an ER Tesla (generally considered the king of EV battery technology)?

And no, it does not need to trickle charge all winter. You think if it's not plugged in when it's, what, -20F, and you leave it unplugged for a day, your car'll have lost all it's juice? I can tell you from personal experience, that is very incorrect.
 


Jbkimmel

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This argument re the GOM / SOM vs calculated range is getting us nowhere - someone is just going to have to do the infamous Kramer gas tank experiment!



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MachTee

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I didn't bother reading the entire article, as I already know it's completely bogus looking at the graph in the OP. What are they "observing"? The GOM? If so, then sure I'd say it matches my own "observation" in 44K miles of model 3 and 13K miles in my MME ?‍♂

Are they really not aware how Tesla's GOM works? It's more of less fixed, and not calculated based on actual driving conditions. They do offer a graph and gives actual consumption data. The "long range" car that I had, in the absolute best of conditions, 270 miles was the most I've ever gotten out of it. In the winter, 150-200 depending on how cold of a day. On a really cold day, the car has no regen braking at all for a large portion of the morning drive. Generally regen is greatly weakened in the winter. Even after 3yrs of ownership, sometimes it still caught me by surprise when rolling down the hill with its inconsistent regen braking behavior.

In my MME, the GOM closely matches my actual driving conditions. Back in the summer and fall, I could definitely get 250 miles out of it, yet my GOM had never shown more than 235 miles or so which matches the graph at 94%. On a really cold winter day (for my area 10-20F), 130 miles. On a more normal winter day, say 25-35F, about 140-150 miles. On those bonus 36-45F days 160-170 miles. Temps have been swinging wildly this winter, and the GOM in the MME adjusts to it pretty quickly. The regen braking in the MME is completely unaffected even on a <10F day, full regen power always available.

Yeah, I pretty much get the same range in my standard range MME as the long range Tesla.

Edit: I wanted to add that the Tesla has a trip meter that resets on every charge, in addition to the trip A and B meters, which I wish the MME has. In spring and summer and early fall, typically the consumption displayed is 230-250Wh/mile (4-4.3MPK), and in the winter 290-320. My 44K average was 256 IIRC. Tesla had never disclosed the usable capacity. I'll be conservative here and give it 70kWh. The numbers don't add up.
 
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voxel

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RickMachE

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I am ? percent with you on this, don't get me wrong. I have a neighbor with a Tesla and they get about the same range as me in the winter. 150 miles. The funny thing is, they have the extended range ? ?. I just think that the manufacturer needs to be more, how do I say, honest, about the range of the battery in cold temperatures. We didn't get above freezing the entire month of January. It's brutal on the battery. I would not recommend any EV in cold climates if you don't have a garage. Full stop. You also need to trickle charge 120v, 3 kw per hour. It always need to be plugged in when not in use. Period. It's just a lot to deal with. However, and I happy I don't have to pay $4 per gallon. You betcha. Is the the funnest car I have ever driven? Absolutely. Does Ford need to improve their battery technology?You bet!
Trickle charge 120v? In a very cold environment? No, you need to have a 240v charger if you want to get peak battery preconditioning.

I believe that graphic was posted a month or two back, and included a discussion about Tesla's GOM being inaccurate.

All I look at is the miles per kWh. Times 88. Done.
 

jonkMACHE

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That article is garbage. I can say for sure that my brother in-laws’s Model S drops a lot more than 90% during the winter.
 

RonTCat

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I just saw this graphic from Recurrent this morning. This will help illustrate--for the inevitable questions-- why someone's car is not performing like it did in the summer; at least, for those of us who live in the hell of winter.
Ford Mustang Mach-E Mileage Graphic for Future Cold Weather Complaints 20220301_175903
Either this is out of context, or the author should be embarrassed to print this. There will be people that actually read and believe this.
 

SWO

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Never live anywhere that coconut palms can't grow without artificial means, ;)

Summer Range in Hawaii AWD ER: 325 miles.
Winter Range in Hawaii AWD ER: 320 miles.*

Ford Mustang Mach-E Mileage Graphic for Future Cold Weather Complaints 20220301_175903


Ford Mustang Mach-E Mileage Graphic for Future Cold Weather Complaints 20220301_175903



* Unless you live on the western flank of Maunakea. In that event your ranges are 205 miles and 198 miles. **

** Guess-O-Meter estimate Only. Your actual range will be higher.***

*** Unless you're leadfooted too.
Luckily I can use my Free EA charging to make up for the loss in range. :)
 

SKelly

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I am ? percent with you on this, don't get me wrong. I have a neighbor with a Tesla and they get about the same range as me in the winter. 150 miles. The funny thing is, they have the extended range ? ?. I just think that the manufacturer needs to be more, how do I say, honest, about the range of the battery in cold temperatures. We didn't get above freezing the entire month of January. It's brutal on the battery. I would not recommend any EV in cold climates if you don't have a garage. Full stop. You also need to trickle charge 120v, 3 kw per hour. It always need to be plugged in when not in use. Period. It's just a lot to deal with. However, and I happy I don't have to pay $4 per gallon. You betcha. Is the the funnest car I have ever driven? Absolutely. Does Ford need to improve their battery technology?You bet!
Hello, Logging in from my home 6,500 ft in the Colorado mountains from which I often drive up (and down) steep grades to over 10,000 ft in the winter. It is true EV mileage varies alot with temperature, much more than than it does for ICE vehicles. However, the way you can always tell, in any condition, how far your EV can drive on the % of battery you have left is to look at your trip meter data during your drive and see what the miles/kWh value is in the upper right hand corner.

Below are data from two of my recent winter trips: Temperatures given in degrees F. In each trip, cabin heat set at 68 and seat warmer on. (feels good on my back!)

Trip 1: 55 miles round trip, with a gain and loss of about 1,500 vertical feet. Day's high temp: 41, low: 32. This trip was somewhere in the middle of those two temperatures.
Trip meter said the trip average used was 2.8 mi/kwh.

Therefore if I drove in those conditions from the GOM's 100% to 0%, with my AWD ER battery which has a usable total of 88 kWh, I would've gotten a total range of: 2.8 mi/kWh * 88 kWh = 246 miles. The GOM's estimate when I left the house with 80% battery was 145 miles. It follows that its range estimate for 100% of the battery would've been 145 * 1.2 = 174 miles. That's a pretty big under estimate compared to what I actually got. The GOM (for those not in the know, GOM is short for guess-o-meter, the amount of range shown for the current % of battery you have left, on the Mach e's mileage display)

For a second trip, which was just 4 miles around town (probably included 2 or 3 miles at 55 mph, the rest at about 30 mph and mostly on flat roads) on a much colder day, with a high of 22 and low of -6.
Trip meter said the trip average was 2.2 miles/kWh. Therefore my 88 kWh battery would've gotten me 194 miles if I'd driven in those conditions all day. The GOM would've told me I had 162 miles range (2.2 mi/kWh * 88 kWh.)

So yes, the drop in range from even the 277 mile range Ford currently touts on their website for the Mach e is pretty big in very cold climates. However, in the summer, as the post from Hawaii shows, we will get higher than 277.

It's EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to keep in mind: EVs emit significantly lower amounts of greenhouse gases when compared to ICE vehicles, even in states like mine where we still get a significant % of our electricity from coal. And as more solar, wind and other renewables come on line, that % coal covers is decreasing every year.

So Pony up, 83girl! Ride with pride as we early adopters accelerate the decrease in our dependence on a financially and morally shaky global petroleum market!

To some of your other points, I never trickle charge at home. I often (even over our sub-zero nights) leave the car unplugged if I don't anticipate needing the kWh's the next day. I do try to remember to pre-condition the car before I drive it to give the battery and the cabin a bit of a warm up before we take off.
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