MME has been around for 3 years, Battery lost?

[RickMachE]

Mach-E / Lightning​

 

[Mirak]

If I lost 20% by 100k miles I’d be pissed. I’m at about 35k over two years and I haven’t tried to measure it but I am not seeing any noticeable degradation.

 

[DevSecOps]

Mach-E / Lightning​

What's your energy to empty, SOC and your pack size on each vehicle? I'd like to do the math instead of rely on the car.

For example, I'm at 59.3095 EtE, 70% SOC with a 91kW pack ...

1% of ? = 59.3095 ÷ 70 = 0.8473
100% of ? = 0.8473 x 100 = 84.73 to 2dp.

84.73/91 = .93109 or 93% SOH

So, I'm at 93% SOH, 22.35mo battery age and 41k miles.

 

[sgriffin130]

Tesla reported their data which showed 12% degradation after 200,000 miles. Don't know how or if this relates to Mach E battery, but I would assume it is similar. The report also states:
Mileage vs. Age: Factors Affecting Battery Capacity Retention
Though mileage is a significant factor in battery capacity retention, battery age also plays a crucial role. Lower mileage retention figures likely indicate the impact of age, while higher mileage values from high-utilization vehicles probably reflect less influence from battery age. Tesla's data set spans over a decade and provides valuable insight into the complex relationship between these factors and battery degradation over time.

 

[DevSecOps]

Tesla reported their data which showed 12% degradation after 200,000 miles. Don't know how or if this relates to Mach E battery, but I would assume it is similar. The report also states:
Mileage vs. Age: Factors Affecting Battery Capacity Retention
Though mileage is a significant factor in battery capacity retention, battery age also plays a crucial role. Lower mileage retention figures likely indicate the impact of age, while higher mileage values from high-utilization vehicles probably reflect less influence from battery age. Tesla's data set spans over a decade and provides valuable insight into the complex relationship between these factors and battery degradation over time.

Which is basically the same as every study I've found.

The key factor then comes to value. It makes much more financial sense to degrade a battery via usage than to degrade a battery via storage.

 

[dtbaker61]

What's your energy to empty, SOC and your pack size on each vehicle? I'd like to do the math instead of rely on the car.

For example, I'm at 59.3095 EtE, 70% SOC with a 91kW pack ...

1% of ? = 59.3095 ÷ 70 = 0.8473
100% of ? = 0.8473 x 100 = 84.73 to 2dp.

84.73/91 = .93109 or 93% SOH

So, I'm at 93% SOH, 22.35mo battery age and 41k miles.

70% soc is really hard to pin down w li batts. Voltage curve is really flat until within 5 % of either end.

I would say you cannot know your actual state of charge with any Precision at all unless you are within 5% of the top and 5% of the bottom that is where the voltage curve versus state of charge will allow any accuracy at all

 

[Mach-Lee]

Mach-E / Lightning​

Rick, can you describe your typical charging habits?

 

[DevSecOps]

70% soc is really hard to pin down w li batts. Voltage curve is really flat until within 5 % of either end.

I would say you cannot know your actual state of charge with any Precision at all unless you are within 5% of the top and 5% of the bottom that is where the voltage curve versus state of charge will allow any accuracy at all

Yes that's true and the best way to calculate it is at 100% SOC, but I doubt Rick would do that, so next best option is to take what he's at.

In April I saw many reports that car scanner was reporting 100% SOH no matter what it actually was. So, I wanted to do the math manually because I'm doubtful it's actually 100%.

 

[JSeis]

Commuter 5 days a week, 51 weeks a year 90 miles: % battery use 34%-70%
Charging cycles total is about 520
DCFC use ~12 times. 80% limit. Usually just 30 miles to get home from a bit longer trips.

68 KW Select AWD
25 month battery age
State of heath 93.5%
~63.58 KWh remaining
48,000+ miles
Average mi/KWh.
Year round 3.5
Last 1000 miles 4.1 (basically summer)
Most recent 100% charge 247 miles range

 

[kodiakng]

Tesla reported their data which showed 12% degradation after 200,000 miles.

link to the report?

 

[dtbaker61]

Yeah
Whatever

The point I was trying to make is that there are so many variables in the actual data collection, accuracy is virtually impossible in the field. Just drive the damn car

 

[RickMachE]

Rick, can you describe your typical charging habits?

A bit personal, no?

Vehicles are plugged in when they are home (actually not right now since both charged to 100%, one by accident - 4.2.6, the other because I forgot to set the one time charge limit since it has no functional GPS, going in tomorrow morning). Could have checked battery health then... Right now the truck is at 97%, the car at 98%, so that's close to perfect for this analysis.

Charged to 90% all the time. If we drive 3 miles, plug in. Pull out of garage to wash it, pull back in, plug in.

For a trip, charge to 100% the night prior, so it sits for close to 12 hours at 100%. During roadtrips, I will often drive to 10% before charging, sometimes lower. Most often I fast charge to 80%, but go higher when needed for range, like in the winter to drive 197 miles from last EA location (95%). When we arrive home, I usually cut it very close. At times, 2% left, or 4%. If I arrive home with more than 10%, I am ticked at wasting money. Car has been fast charged ~ 32 times.

The Mach-E has been charged at 32amps (7.7kW) at home 99% of the time. Once in a blue moon I raised it to 48amps.

The truck has only been here for 3 weeks. I have no idea what state of charge it had for the roughly 10+ months it sat at the dealership. The night before I took delivery, it was charged from 87% to 100%. It is being charged here at 48amps (11.5kW). It never DC charged, except at the factory, until I drive it home, charging 3 times.

As we use both vehicles, charging will happen in a pro-rated basis, with the truck set at 48 and the car set at 32. So, if they both charge at the same time, the truck will be roughly at 6.9kW and the car at 4.6kW. As one finishes, the other will ramp up to the max stated above.

We rarely drive both vehicles any day. We often don't drive anything every day. So both vehicles sit at 90% charge much of their lives.

When my wife drives, she drives like you would expect. When I drive, I often punch it.

Mach-E ETE is 86.34. Displayed SOC is 98%. So by your math, 88.1/91=96.8% SOH.
Truck ETE is 121.54. Displayed SOC is 98%. Therefore 124/131=94.7% SOH.

Mach-E SOC is 93.14%, but display is 98%. If I use that figure I get 92.7.

Truck SOC is 92.26%, but display is 98%. If I use that figure I get 131.74.

Whatever it really is, I'm changing nothing.

If people would like to adopt my methodology, send $100 to PayPay, via Friends and Family, for an annual license fee to [email protected]. We expect to raise the fee substantially on July 1st so hurry while this deal is in effect.

 

[dbsb3233]

Some have speculated that the decreasing SOH may just be made up for initially by the car "stealing" from the upper buffer, reducing it until it can't give any more. No idea if that's actually true, but if it is, then we'd see no noticeable range loss until that point. That would effectively mask the loss. But once that buffer is exhausted, further degradation would become apparent, perhaps in a rather shocking way.

Curious if that's really true or not.

 

[DevSecOps]

Mach-E ETE is 86.34. Displayed SOC is 98%. So by your math, 88.1/91=96.8% SOH.
Truck ETE is 121.54. Displayed SOC is 98%. Therefore 124/131=94.7% SOH.

Those numbers look about right and would be in line with most of the people on this forum. If they are both charged to 100% right now that would be the best time to do the math again because the car is full, and won't accept any more electrons. Then it's just a matter of seeing what is reported as energy to empty vs what a new pack is and divide the two. (i.e. 89/91).

Like I said in another post, there were a lot of people saying that the SOH was bugged in car scanner and showing 100% regardless. It didn't appear to be for everyone so maybe it was adapter based, I'm not sure (I'm using VeePeak). Doing the long hand math isn't perfect either, but it's as close as we can get. In my case, car scanner showed 93% SOH and the long hand way validated the same number.

 

[lincoln81]

It's the mileage, not the age, that's really going to show it.

The warranty is for 70%, or greater, at 8 years / 100,000 miles. Ford expects to beat that, even for battery "abusers" (charge to 100%, DC fast charge all the time, etc.).

I will do 100, 000 miles within 3 years, unfortunately I have a big drive to work, in the winter (canadian) the range is already cut in half give or take, with a 20-30% loss ontop of that I probably wouldnt even make it to work in the winter

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