MME Not a long-term vehicle. How come?

[Mickey the T]

I really don't know how long we're going to keep ours. Fortunately, I found a financing program that gave me the "option" of giving the car back if I desired.

And what is this flexibility costing me? Nothing...in fact, it's saving me money. Total interest on 3-year Ford Options for me is $1,626, while I got a $2,500 incentive for going through Ford Options.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

we're off original topic here but anyway...

Did Dave Ramsey fail to explain investment returns to you?

Dave Ramsey focuses on "no debt no debt no debt" without acknowledging that there is such a thing as appropriate debt.

For example https://www.ramseysolutions.com/debt/the-truth-about-debt says

If you’re in debt, you don’t have the freedom to use your money the way you want.​

and on that same page, he says:

It was a reach. He could spout the myth with enthusiasm, but life and God had some lessons to teach him. Only after losing everything he owned and finding himself bankrupt did he think that risk should be factored in, even mathematically. It took this painful wake-up call for him to realize how dumb and dangerous the myth is.​

Let me paraphrase this - "Dave Ramsey was unable to manage his debt and he thinks you're too stupid to manage it, either." And of course there's a Bible quote to go with the "and God" there, just in case you dare question him. You're clearly wrong because God says so.

He doesn't even think you should do a mortgage or if you do, it better not be above 75% of value or 30 years, or else!!! ( The Truth About Mortgages | RamseySolutions.com ) Bizarrely, on that same page, he says that trailers never ever increase in value, implying that houses always do, when in fact in the past 20 years we have seen both of those absolutes to be false. And that same logic ("the value always drops") would tell you to never buy a new car, or really honestly to buy almost anything ever. (Did your couch go up in value? Did your mattress? No? Then enjoy sleeping on the floor, because you're not allowed to buy things that drop in value!)

When you're borrowing at 0%, or near 0%, you have the freedom to put that money somewhere where it earns something. Inappropriate debt is a real problem, but suggesting that there's no place for any debt, ever, for a normal person is just crazy pants. And you know what? I have made plenty more in my personal investments than the 2.9% I'm being charged by Ford, and that's not even counting that Ford literally paid me (because of the Options incentive vs. the 2.9%) to take the loan out. If I followed Dave Ramsey's logic, I'd absolutely, for sure, knowingly losing money. But I'd have no car payment! I also wouldn't have made the approximately 25% to date that I've made with that invested money, of course, so again, would have literally lost thousands of dollars so far this year on the deal, but at least I'd have no car payment!

If you follow this logic, almost nobody would ever be able to buy their first home. Hell, I'd literally never have been able to buy a home, or buy a single car, ever, in my entire life, starting with my first car. I also couldn't have gotten a college education, which is what let me get the job I have that is paying for the house, and the Mach-E, and on and on. (To be fair, as I say above, he does grudgingly acknowledge that most people don't have money to buy a house outright. He just wants you to know you're a bad person because of it.)

The "all debt is bad" is fine if you're wealthy enough to pay for everything all up at once. Otherwise it's all about managing that debt.

 

[MidwestElectric]

Wait – I have already promised my nine year old son he’s going to get it when he turns 16.

 

[dbsb3233]

IMO if you're buying a vehicle to keep it long term you should never buy a first model year. They WILL have issues. They always do. You can usually get those issues resolved but it makes so much more sense to wait for those issues to get ironed out, see what those issues are, determine if they are going to be problematic for keeping the vehicle long term, and then make your purchase if you've concluded it's a good fit. If you've got a vehicle you've kept for a long time already you should have the patience and the discipline to wait it out where some of us don't.

While there's some logic to this, we've actually bucked that trend and been quite fortunate. We bought two (first-year) 2001 Escapes that were great, and then replaced them with two (first year of the complete redesign) 2013 Escapes that have been great (we still own one as the 2nd car to the Mach-E).

The Mach-E was even a bigger gamble in that regard, as it was not just a first-year model, but a radically new and unproven platform. But we took the leap because Ford has a good track record with SUVs and trucks (not so much sedans, but that's moot now).

We usually buy vehicles to last for 100k+ miles. We're retired now (driving low annual miles), so the Mach-E may be our last vehicle purchase. Although we also have a lot more money than we ever used to, giving us the luxury of a sooner trade-up if we want. So who knows. If vehicles get way better in 5 years, maybe.

 

[BMT1071]

Wait – I have already promised my nine year old son he’s going to get it when he turns 16.

I'm thinking my 11 year old gets to use it in 5 years.

 

[BMT1071]

we're off original topic here but anyway...


Dave Ramsey focuses on "no debt no debt no debt" without acknowledging that there is such a thing as appropriate debt.

For example https://www.ramseysolutions.com/debt/the-truth-about-debt says

If you’re in debt, you don’t have the freedom to use your money the way you want.​

and on that same page, he says:

It was a reach. He could spout the myth with enthusiasm, but life and God had some lessons to teach him. Only after losing everything he owned and finding himself bankrupt did he think that risk should be factored in, even mathematically. It took this painful wake-up call for him to realize how dumb and dangerous the myth is.​

Let me paraphrase this - "Dave Ramsey was unable to manage his debt and he thinks you're too stupid to manage it, either." And of course there's a Bible quote to go with the "and God" there, just in case you dare question him. You're clearly wrong because God says so.

He doesn't even think you should do a mortgage or if you do, it better not be above 75% of value or 30 years, or else!!! ( The Truth About Mortgages | RamseySolutions.com ) Bizarrely, on that same page, he says that trailers never ever increase in value, implying that houses always do, when in fact in the past 20 years we have seen both of those absolutes to be false. And that same logic ("the value always drops") would tell you to never buy a new car, or really honestly to buy almost anything ever. (Did your couch go up in value? Did your mattress? No? Then enjoy sleeping on the floor, because you're not allowed to buy things that drop in value!)

When you're borrowing at 0%, or near 0%, you have the freedom to put that money somewhere where it earns something. Inappropriate debt is a real problem, but suggesting that there's no place for any debt, ever, for a normal person is just crazy pants. And you know what? I have made plenty more in my personal investments than the 2.9% I'm being charged by Ford, and that's not even counting that Ford literally paid me (because of the Options incentive vs. the 2.9%) to take the loan out. If I followed Dave Ramsey's logic, I'd absolutely, for sure, knowingly losing money. But I'd have no car payment! I also wouldn't have made the approximately 25% to date that I've made with that invested money, of course, so again, would have literally lost thousands of dollars so far this year on the deal, but at least I'd have no car payment!

If you follow this logic, almost nobody would ever be able to buy their first home. Hell, I'd literally never have been able to buy a home, or buy a single car, ever, in my entire life, starting with my first car. I also couldn't have gotten a college education, which is what let me get the job I have that is paying for the house, and the Mach-E, and on and on. (To be fair, as I say above, he does grudgingly acknowledge that most people don't have money to buy a house outright. He just wants you to know you're a bad person because of it.)

The "all debt is bad" is fine if you're wealthy enough to pay for everything all up at once. Otherwise it's all about managing that debt.

That's an awful lot of typing to say that Dave Ramsey is an idiot. ??

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

That's an awful lot of typing to say that Dave Ramsey is an idiot. ??

"TL;DR" lol

I felt like I couldn't just say that without justifying my position on it. I know a person socially right now that is choosing to live somewhat miserably (in her view) because her husband is all "DAVE RAMSEY!!!!!!!1!!!1!!2!!!!11!!" and she's like "you know I don't think it's terrible for the kids to have a nice summer weekend sometimes even if it means maybe spending a little on that instead of on paying ahead on the car" and it just makes me sad and angry to think about.

 

[ZuleMME]

There is something to be said for making wise decisions. Dave Ramsey's method is an extreme that will work well if you can tolerate it. But there are many levels between his ideology and what a over spender does. Find a happy medium and work to better yourself, not the bank. My younger self wasn't ready to hear that and I'm sure plenty of people here aren't either.

 

[MachoHulkWarrior]

Sounds like I did it all wrong. I should have saved up more in middle school and HS before taking out loans for college. Nice pro tip.

I worked through college. Took me longer but it was worth not dealing with

"TL;DR" lol

I felt like I couldn't just say that without justifying my position on it. I know a person socially right now that is choosing to live somewhat miserably (in her view) because her husband is all "DAVE RAMSEY!!!!!!!1!!!1!!2!!!!11!!" and she's like "you know I don't think it's terrible for the kids to have a nice summer weekend sometimes even if it means maybe spending a little on that instead of on paying ahead on the car" and it just makes me sad and angry to think about.

" Live like no one else, so that later you can live like no one else ".

 

[BMT1071]

" Live like no one else, so that later you can live like no one else ".

That's the same thing the "FIRE" crowd preaches. I guess if living like a monk for 10-20 years works for you, then go for it. I'd rather enjoy my life.

 

[ESilver]

I will drive it into the ground as I have done with my previous several vehicles. I hope that is 10+ years down the road. I take good care of my vehicles and anticipate that it could be 15-20 years. Maybe a battery refresh will need to happen, but I am not even convinced of that necessarily.

 

[theo1000]

I paid of my Mach-E in cash....

...But if anyone compromises their savings and investments to do that they are 'crazy'. If you have surplus liquidity to pay off your car well and good, but to do that in this low interest environment by weakening your investments is not wise no matter who tells you.

And investing wisely with a broad market ETF is not speculation, up or down. I'm with Buffet that, it is a bet on America. I will take that bet every time. My dad, who did pretty well, always told me the Stock Market is the only place in America where they declare a 'Sale' and no one shows up!!

This sort of off topic stuff is why I love this forum
Ok getting off my teeny tiny soapbox... ...where's the beer.... ?

 

[cinzen]

Wives aren't even a long term thing these days...

 

[greenaero]

I put a lot of thought into every new vehicle I have bought. My last car I kept for 19 years and woudn't have sold it except for life style changes and limited garage space. I plan to keep my MME a long time; its a great car.
?

Oh, and I've kept my current wife 34 years.
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'

 

[Jimct]

Wait – I have already promised my nine year old son he’s going to get it when he turns 16.

That's probably pretty close to when my "on order" gets delivered.