Model S Plaid & Mach E Rt 1 Roadtrip by MKBHD

[Stang68]

they also picked a really horrible route - upstate NY is horrible for CCS chargers.

Seemed okay for Tesla...should be just as easy for other EV drivers. The route isn't the problem.

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[voxel]

I can believe this. When I first looking at EVs (specifically the ID.4) I discovered the DC fast charging network for central Florida outside of Tesla is horribad. No Electrify America stations on the turnpike. Folks said there were NONE in Orlando a year ago either and now there's one in the city... lol.

I don't have much hope of it improving because there's simply no profit in building them. Outside of EA.. there's ONE fast charging EVgo 20minutes north of the city center. And what's worse is each location here has 2-3 stations only. It's why I put a deposit on a Tesla... there are 6+ superchargers in the city (and two on the turnpike) - each with 10+ stations.

I'm considering a Mach-E because it looks like blast to drive but it will be mostly a city / small-trips car that I charge at home. I still want one... but not paying $3.5K over MSRP though.

 

[Stang68]

I can believe this. When I first looking at EVs (specifically the ID.4) I discovered the DC fast charging network for central Florida outside of Tesla is horribad. No Electrify America stations on the turnpike. Folks said there were NONE in Orlando a year ago either and now there's one in the city... lol.

I don't have much hope of it improving because there's simply no profit in building them. Outside of EA.. there's ONE fast charging EVgo 20minutes north of the city center. And what's worse is each location here has 2-3 stations only. It's why I put a deposit on a Tesla... there are 6+ superchargers in the city (and two on the turnpike) - each with 10+ stations.

I'm considering a Mach-E because it looks like blast to drive but it will be mostly a city / small-trips car that I charge at home. I still want one... but not paying $3.5K over MSRP though.

Definitely don't pay over MSRP for one. You can find them at sticker for sure.

And I disagree a bit, I do see this getting better, what with EA's recent announcement of a huge expansion. And as more manufacturers get into the game, more stations will pop up.

Plus, I read on the Twitter Mr. Musk is opening up Tesla stations to everyone this year ?

 

[voxel]

Definitely don't pay over MSRP for one. You can find them at sticker for sure.

And I disagree a bit, I do see this getting better, what with EA's recent announcement of a huge expansion. And as more manufacturers get into the game, more stations will pop up.

Plus, I read on the Twitter Mr. Musk is opening up Tesla stations to everyone this year ?

Hey... I'd gladly pay $7500 to access the Superchargers. Serious. I think Musk meant European access first though.

EA + DC fasting is so bad here (seems much better in Miami though). So out of the way too... Florida Mall, really? Davenport, really? Imagine having to stop for gas but drive 15-20mins off the highway/turnpike to get it.

 

[alexgorod]

Although seriously, for now, the "only use EA if possible" is good advice.

Really, for now, "only use ICE" is a much safer option.

 

[pt19713]

And I disagree a bit, I do see this getting better, what with EA's recent announcement of a huge expansion. And as more manufacturers get into the game, more stations will pop up.

Plus, I read on the Twitter Mr. Musk is opening up Tesla stations to everyone this year ?

Even if permits are in process at these new locations, it can still take 4-6+ months before they'll be in operation. Taking into account the permit process, that can add months to the whole timeline. It's easy for them to say that they have X amount of chargers they would like to install.

FYI Europe will be the first to open up the Tesla network since all vehicles have the same CCS connector. Here in the US there will be additional challenges because of the proprietary connector currently on the Tesla and the Tesla superchargers. Add in the locations of the charge ports on certain vehicles, even if they had the right connector, the Tesla supercharger cable won't reach since most superchargers are designed for the vehicle to back in. With the Tesla charge port on the driver rear, the cables are only long enough to reach that location. Vehicles with the charge port on the driver front fender would essentially have to take up two spots to get the cable to reach. In the 2nd screen shot, the cable would reach in spot 1B and use 1A, but that would render spot 1B useless for a Tesla vehicle.

Major changes would be needed for the North American Tesla charging network. They would have to lengthen the cables significantly, or they would have to reposition the stalls to allow for proper charging for different types of vehicles. Space will be an issue since this design (image 3) obviously takes more space.

 

[Stang68]

Even if permits are in process at these new locations, it can still take 4-6+ months before they'll be in operation. Taking into account the permit process, that can add months to the whole timeline. It's easy for them to say that they have X amount of chargers they would like to install.

FYI Europe will be the first to open up the Tesla network since all vehicles have the same CCS connector. Here in the US there will be additional challenges because of the proprietary connector currently on the Tesla and the Tesla superchargers. Add in the locations of the charge ports on certain vehicles, even if they had the right connector, the Tesla supercharger cable won't reach since most superchargers are designed for the vehicle to back in. With the Tesla charge port on the driver rear, the cables are only long enough to reach that location. Vehicles with the charge port on the driver front fender would essentially have to take up two spots to get the cable to reach. In the 2nd screen shot, the cable would reach in spot 1B and use 1A, but that would render spot 1B useless for a Tesla vehicle.

Major changes would be needed for the North American Tesla charging network. They would have to lengthen the cables significantly, or they would have to reposition the stalls to allow for proper charging for different types of vehicles. Space will be an issue since this design (image 3) obviously takes more space.

The EA plan is to be complete by 2025: https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/149

And I'll believe the Elon claims when I plug my Mach E into a SuperCharger lol If he really does want it to happen (and get all those government funds) then I'm sure Tesla will sell a wonderfully priced CCS adapter with different lengths for us to buy on the Tesla website.

 

[pt19713]

The EA plan is to be complete by 2025: https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/149

And I'll believe the Elon claims when I plug my Mach E into a SuperCharger lol If he really does want it to happen (and get all those government funds) then I'm sure Tesla will sell a wonderfully priced CCS adapter with different lengths for us to buy on the Tesla website.

There would be a technical challenge with a longer adapter since the current cords are water cooled. I'm sure they'll find a way to make it work, or just retrofit the chargers with longer cables. They're already currently serviced and replaced every 2000 uses, so it's something they could roll out over time.

 

[Thevanin]

I think it was a pretty fair test that ended up showing the worst case outcome for the Mach E. Some road trips are either harder or straight up not possible in a non-Tesla EV. That's the reality of where things are. Anything that pressures/shames non-Tesla companies to do better is positive in my book.

I'm visiting my parents in PA in 2 weeks and the driving time alone is 90 min longer than my old route because of the WV charging situation.... that's before I take charging times into account. Everyone's needs are different, but if ease of 1000+ mi road trips was one of my main requirements for a car; I wouldn't have bought the Mach E.

 

[Stang68]

There would be a technical challenge with a longer adapter since the current cords are water cooled. I'm sure they'll find a way to make it work, or just retrofit the chargers with longer cables. They're already currently serviced and replaced every 2000 uses, so it's something they could roll out over time.

Yes, I agree. Where there's a government grant, there's a way.

 

[SpacePony]

I must respectfully disagree, sir.

They either tested the data, so they knew it was bad, or they just took it and rolled with it, which is their fault as well. In other words, they did make a choice, albeit one other manufacturers are making where there aren't a lot of choices, especially good ones.

If the providers aren't giving real-time information on if their stations are working, how can Ford be responsible for a station being down? Send a Ford employee to every charging station in the nation 24hrs a day just to report its current status? Yes, Ford received and reviewed the BASE data (which I'm sure is updated periodically), but keeping that up to date is the responsibilty of the individual networks more than Ford.

That's like arriving at a store that closed early for the afternoon and blaming Google for lying about their hours.

 

[timbop]

Seemed okay for Tesla...should be just as easy for other EV drivers. The route isn't the problem.

It depends what you're trying to prove. CCS isn't ready for mass adoption everywhere yet, and that's a fact. So, if he wanted to prove that then he did. For those early adopters willing to learn and compensate CCS is viable in most cases.

The Supercharger network is 5 years ahead of EA, but that's because it is almost ten years older. Had he tried the same route in a Tesla in 2015 he would have had trouble making it, too - without prior planning and potentially changing the route.

Absolutely Ford's NAV isn't nearly as good as ABRP, plugshare, etc. Absolutely the CCS charging network isn't as good as the Supercharger network today. However, it is also absolutely true that one can compensate for those shortcomings and still successfully road trip a Mach E to many places in the US. Unfortunately, the "average Joe" that Ford is targeting with the Mach E and F-150 Lightning isn't aware of any of this.

 

[Stang68]

It depends what you're trying to prove. CCS isn't ready for mass adoption everywhere yet, and that's a fact. So, if he wanted to prove that then he did. For those early adopters willing to learn and compensate CCS is viable in most cases.

You‘re adding more and more asterisks to this and it’s only bad for CCS users. The route shouldn’t matter, and bellyaching about his route makes us all look like whiners.

Like you said, we here on this forum know to use ABRP but all those new Lightning owners are going to be very pissed off at Ford come this spring. Ford could get it together by then but until that day, owning a non-Tesla EV requires research and extra work on your part.

 

[timbop]

You‘re adding more and more asterisks to this and it’s only bad for CCS users. The route shouldn’t matter, and bellyaching about his route makes us all look like whiners.

Like you said, we here on this forum know to use ABRP but all those new Lightning owners are going to be very pissed off at Ford come this spring. Ford could get it together by then but until that day, owning a non-Tesla EV requires research and extra work on your part.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't whining, but if that's your perception.. well, ok.

No EV network is ubiquitous yet - there are huge swaths out west where you cannot simply drive a Tesla or any other EV from point A to point B without carefully planning your route - and sometimes even if you do carefully plan your route you will go out of your way or be stuck at L2 chargers at times. The supercharger network is bigger and more reliable, but it is still nowhere near where EV charging networks need to be in order to simply get in the car and road trip from anywhere to anywhere without any planning or detours. In that light, the deck was stacked against the Mach E because he chose an area with poor CCS coverage and good SC coverage. If that was the intent of the test, then yes mission accomplished. If the intent was to show that Ford's nav needs work, once again mission accomplished. Since the expressed intent was to compare the road trip charging times of 2 EV's against an ICE fueling up on gas, then the test was flawed as it was a worst-case scenario for one of the vehicles.

It does have value in that it puts the shortcomings of the current CCS network and Ford's charger integration with NAV into the forefront. But let's not kid ourselves, the Mach E would have come out much better with either prior planning or a different route - say south to washington DC and back where there is plenty of EA coverage.

 

[Stang68]

I'm pretty sure I wasn't whining, but if that's your perception.. well, ok.

No EV network is ubiquitous yet - there are huge swaths out west where you cannot simply drive a Tesla or any other EV from point A to point B without carefully planning your route - and sometimes even if you do carefully plan your route you will go out of your way or be stuck at L2 chargers at times. The supercharger network is bigger and more reliable, but it is still nowhere near where EV charging networks need to be in order to simply get in the car and road trip from anywhere to anywhere without any planning or detours. In that light, the deck was stacked against the Mach E because he chose an area with poor CCS coverage and good SC coverage. If that was the intent of the test, then yes mission accomplished. If the intent was to show that Ford's nav needs work, once again mission accomplished. Since the expressed intent was to compare the road trip charging times of 2 EV's against an ICE fueling up on gas, then the test was flawed as it was a worst-case scenario for one of the vehicles.

It does have value in that it puts the shortcomings of the current CCS network and Ford's charger integration with NAV into the forefront. But let's not kid ourselves, the Mach E would have come out much better with either prior planning or a different route - say south to washington DC and back where there is plenty of EA coverage.

I agree that prior planning would have helped the first leg of their trip, something CCS owners will have to do for a few years to come. But it sounds like you’re just making excuses for the Ford (or more-so the crappy stations they stopped at) by saying they chose a bad route…

The ray of light in the video is how well the Mustang did on the journey back. Nearly as good as the Tesla which (as you accurately pointed out) has had a years-long advantage on infrastructure. The days of Tesla stans screaming “bUt ThE iNfRaStRuCtUrE” are numbered.

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