littlD

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My hope is either something is wrong and they’ll fix it OR they did this on purpose to be conservative at first and will fix it later once they’re sure the car can take it.

I seem to remember Tesla doing both a free and a $$ acceleration boost after the Model 3 came out.
Can confirm that on my 2018 LR RWD Model 3. But it was only a couple of tens of a second improvement.
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Tommy303

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Today I had time for a quick 0-60 Dragy run on my way into work. I charged it up to 90%, used 1PD in unbridled mode. Do the reviewers and magazines adjust for altitude, DA or temps?

Screenshot_20210912-111109_dragy.jpg
 
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Tommy303

Tommy303

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did you have 'traction control' turned on, or off ?
I'd suggest off so the software doesn't throttle back to prevent wheel spin... but your starts were great, so no worries really, may be fine to just floor it and let traction control manage the spin.

The top end is software limited... current/rpm limited to prevent overheating and over-speed rom on the motor since we have fixed gearing, and probably not user changable until somebody figures out a hack into the controller. Which would endanger any future drivetrain warranty claims.

Might be able to squeeze out a higher top end by using the biggest circumference tires that will fit in the wheelwells. This would give a few more mph at the same motor rpm.

My Select has a hard cap at 112mph, GT is supposed to be higher. Select feels like the software throttles back around 85-90, and the times I've pulled off my tests using the ODB2 reader+CarScanner show a pretty big change in the accel curve somewhere between 80-100

0-90 the Mach-e is outstanding. great fun for mountain, Auto-x or tracks with <100mph backstretch..... but not going to be an all out 1/4 mile contender, or autobahn king.
I tried both ways, with no discernable different. It was at a track with a prepped surface though.
 

Tomcat

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And....great looking ride! Just wondering, is it the iconic silver or carbonized gray? My ordered MME-PE is iconic silver with the platinum gray interior. Haven't seen any in the wild yet.
 

phil

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Today I had time for a quick 0-60 Dragy run on my way into work. I charged it up to 90%, used 1PD in unbridled mode. Do the reviewers and magazines adjust for altitude, DA or temps?
That is quick. 3.87 seconds almost matches the manufacturer's claim, despite a significant uphill slope.
 


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The top end is software limited... current/rpm limited to prevent overheating and over-speed rom on the motor since we have fixed gearing, and probably not user changable until somebody figures out a hack into the controller. Which would endanger any future drivetrain warranty claims.
Wish you would have just posted sooner that you knew for a fact the borg warner IDMs were thermally limited above a certain defined RPM range. Would have saved like 70 pages of hand wringing, crying, and insults. Doesn't really explain why the 4x is allowed to draw more above like 50-70 mph WITH THE SAME BORG WARNER IDM, but hey. ?‍♂
 
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Up and Over

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I have a GT ordered with a build date in October. While the 1/4 mile results so far are disappointing, I plan on sticking with it. In terms of full disclosure, I have no plans to take the car to a track. Having said that, what matters to me is acceleration while merging onto the highway as well as passing. Over 90% of my commute is highway driving.

What I’m left wondering is whether there is a difference in the vehicle’s performance when going from 0-100 (ie full throttle for over 12s) and cruising along at 40 then punching it up to 70 or 70 and then punching up to 80. If there really is a software limitation, would it really be applied to normal driving conditions? What have GT/GTPE owners noticed in day to day driving?
 

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https://www.automobile-catalog.com/...rd_mustang_mach-e_gt_performance_edition.html

Don't know how reliable this information is, but the performance curve shown here has the torque dropping like a rock after 4000 rpm. On a vehicle this heavy, that may well explain why it seems to slow dramatically when you reach a certain speed- assuming that speed coincides with the motors spinning at greater than 4000 rpm. With the 4000 number so precise on this graph, I wonder if Ford set it there purposely, and maybe has the ability to set it higher if they choose to with an OTA (subject to battery considerations, of course).
 

Mach1E

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If it stands as is , whoever is in charge of the Mach e at ford should be fired instantly. What a horrible marketing tactic. Imagine Honda selling a civic Si that's slower then the regular civic? Or a Z06 that was slower then a base vette??? Makes absolutely zero sense. Marketing disaster. My guess they didn't want to delay the cars any more and are working on a fix. My order is awaiting chip. If 6 week delay holds up it will be sometime in November. I will not be taking it if they don't fix it. Most important part of a cars power is passing speeds and overtake. The GT has none!!
This kinda craziness has happened before. Subaru came out with a WRX STi that was slower than the regular WRX.

Ford came out with a Cobra that wasn’t any faster than the GT.

But neither of those things stayed that way for long.
 

Mach1E

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https://www.automobile-catalog.com/...rd_mustang_mach-e_gt_performance_edition.html

Don't know how reliable this information is, but the performance curve shown here has the torque dropping like a rock after 4000 rpm. On a vehicle this heavy, that may well explain why it seems to slow dramatically when you reach a certain speed- assuming that speed coincides with the motors spinning at greater than 4000 rpm. With the 4000 number so precise on this graph, I wonder if Ford set it there purposely, and maybe has the ability to set it higher if they choose to with an OTA (subject to battery considerations, of course).
I WISH this was an actual dyno.

It’s not.

This would be the absolute best power curve possible for 480hp. The car would hit peak hp and stay that way to redline.

All they did was chart peak tq and peak hp on a graph.

From the website: “The Horspower / Torque Curve below was generated by the ProfessCars™ software, based on the factory data:”

Ford Mustang Mach-E More Mach-E GT 1/4 mile track results 687C19E0-9F05-4A20-9B33-0D9CAA968168


If this was the actual dyno, the GTPE would easily run in the 11s.

HP is just a formula of tq at rpm. They just charted the formula assuming it’s at peak hp the entire time. FWIW though, Tesla dynos do look very flat like this for hp.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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Today I had time for a quick 0-60 Dragy run on my way into work. I charged it up to 90%, used 1PD in unbridled mode. Do the reviewers and magazines adjust for altitude, DA or temps?

Screenshot_20210912-111109_dragy.jpg
No DA corrections required for EVs as they aren’t affected by atmospheric conditions other than really cold temps affecting battery. However, really high elevations could see an additional small bit of mph due to effect of thinner air on aero.

And that damn slope of 7.5% is like making it run bleachers to 60mph.
 

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https://www.automobile-catalog.com/...rd_mustang_mach-e_gt_performance_edition.html

Don't know how reliable this information is, but the performance curve shown here has the torque dropping like a rock after 4000 rpm. On a vehicle this heavy, that may well explain why it seems to slow dramatically when you reach a certain speed- assuming that speed coincides with the motors spinning at greater than 4000 rpm. With the 4000 number so precise on this graph, I wonder if Ford set it there purposely, and maybe has the ability to set it higher if they choose to with an OTA (subject to battery considerations, of course).
Looks like an EV curve should. Linear increase in power until maximum power is reached, where HP is then held steady. Torque is a function of power over RPM, and thus decreases when max power is reached and RPM continues to increase.

Those graphs show max power being reached at around 38 mph (4000 rpm) assuming the EM motor units have the same 9.05 drive ratio of the 4x rear motor. X axis only goes out to 9000 rpm which would correspond to about 85 mph.

As far as I'm aware, Tesla curves look similar and have a similar final drive ratio (9.0 in the model 3). Slightly smaller ratio but so is tire diameter I think. Basically means that given their similar HP numbers, they should have power curves that look almost identical. Mach e is heavier and thus requires a higher torque value to reach the same RPM at around the same time, made possible presumable from more power being drawn from the battery.

But we know from the times in these threads that those curves are NOT accurate on the back end though. If you look at EV curves, they all will eventually decrease HP. It doesn't stay plateaued forever. Early model S curves started decreasing HP at like 80-90 mph I think. Slowly though. And then of course you will eventually run into rpm limitations. Per the times here, that decrease from max hp is occurring MUCH earlier in these GTs. If it wasn't they would be running similar times to the slightly lower power but slightly lower weight Model Y performance.

TLDR: Ford has chosen to begin decreasing max HP at an earlier mph than other similar EVs. Why this is happening is still unknown because FMC has thus far been silent.
 

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HP is just a formula of tq at rpm. They just charted the formula assuming it’s at peak hp the entire time. FWIW though, Tesla dynos do look very flat like this for hp.
Exactly. Tesla keeps HP plateaued for much deeper into RPMs. Ford needs to tell us why they chose not to.
 

pt19713

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Here's the MYP dyno chart. It's the lighter blue.
The other line is the M3P, which has more power immediately but tapers off. The MYP power delivery is delayed initially but stays on for longer.

20210912_194446.jpg
 

buzznwood

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Exactly. Tesla keeps HP plateaued for much deeper into RPMs. Ford needs to tell us why they chose not to.
If its not a battery limitation it is probably some marketing bozo limitation, we know that both motors combined is around 562hp and the earlier specs only had power target of around 459hp, similar to a regular coupe gt with the final specs now being 480hp the same as mach-1.

As plenty of us have alluded too that trying not to step on the toes of your ICE models is idiotic when potential customers are not looking at your ICE model as an alternative but your competitors BEV, but companies make stupid decisions all the time.

Heck the order guides for the GT / GTPE still have 459hp so maybe 480hp only exists in the some of the marketers minds and they forgot to inform engineering of the change lol
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