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More MME's to Europe?

Kamuelaflyer

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The originally intended production split for the Mach-e was 40/60 US/EU-UK. Given that much of Europe hasn't been able to order yet, we don't know how the final split will pan out. The fines the EU will be imposing though are not insignificant to Ford or any other manufacturer selling there.
 

LYTMCQ

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The originally intended production split for the Mach-e was 40/60 US/EU-UK. Given that much of Europe hasn't been able to order yet, we don't know how the final split will pan out. The fines the EU will be imposing though are not insignificant to Ford or any other manufacturer selling there.
If anything with EU not giving any breaks to car mfgs. for Covid 19, I'd guess EU would get more, US and UK less.
 

Jolteon

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This is the fundamental problem with looking at EVs as "compliance" exercises.

Sure, the Kuga PHEV is a great car, and sure, the Mach-E is a great car. But the fact that the Mach-E's volumes we've been promised are so low tells me that they are still looking at this from the lens of "how few do we have to sell."

If the Kuga PHEV wasn't their only passenger PHEV, if they had put more PHEVs and BEVs in the lineup and not tried to slow roll the EV transition, they wouldn't be in this position. Why the new Focus wasn't a long-range Focus Electric BEV, I won't understand. Why the new Focus didn't have a hybrid, I won't understand. Ford seems determined to be late to EVs, never early.

Putting all your eggs in one Kuga PHEV-sized basket was always risky, COVID or not.

I'm glad the EU is stepping up the fines. That is the only way the legacies will actually transition to EVs.
 

LYTMCQ

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But the fact that the Mach-E's volumes we've been promised are so low tells me that they are still looking at this from the lens of "how few do we have to sell."
More lets start out with low volume so if issues arise, as with the PHEV Kuga, risks are low. MachE sales go well, no issues develop, as we say at the Mach E factory Vamanos!!!
 

Jolteon

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More lets start out with low volume so if issues arise, as with the PHEV Kuga, risks are low. MachE sales go well, no issues develop, as we say at the Mach E factory Vamanos!!!
I look at it from the other angle - how can we avoid closing engine plants, transmission plants, hiring more battery and motor engineers while laying off engine engineers, meet the bare minimum regulatory compliance and sell more fossil cars in the meantime, etc...

Change is hard and Ford, like most automakers, is trying to avoid the changes EVs will bring, even though that resistance is futile just like resistance to all technology is.
 

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The originally intended production split for the Mach-e was 40/60 US/EU-UK
Not to start anything (there's enough of that in this forum), but that 60/40 split transformed from supposition 10 months ago to fact somewhere around 8 months ago. As far as I have ever seen, no Ford employee publicly or on this forum has substantiated that ratio.

The recent videos and reports from Europe state that Europe is in the 8000 range, not 30,000 as has been believed for almost a year. The fact that @trutolife27 reported 50k ORDERs were already in hand with around 10k left to go before most of Europe (ie not the netherlands) has had a chance to order corroborates the 8k number.
 

LYTMCQ

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meet the bare minimum regulatory compliance and sell more fossil cars in the meantime, etc...
Except that "bare regulatory minimum" is total conversion by 2035 (CA's new law).

Transition over next two years is huge.
 

Jolteon

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Except that "bare regulatory minimum" is total conversion by 2035 (CA's new law).

Transition over next two years is huge.
And we'll see whether Ford will target that compliance on 12/31/35, or if they'll be proactive.

This 2020CY EU CO2 chaos they find themselves in suggests they want bare minimum, delay as long as possible compliance.
 

RonTCat

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I look at it from the other angle - how can we avoid closing engine plants, transmission plants, hiring more battery and motor engineers while laying off engine engineers, meet the bare minimum regulatory compliance and sell more fossil cars in the meantime, etc...

Change is hard and Ford, like most automakers, is trying to avoid the changes EVs will bring, even though that resistance is futile just like resistance to all technology is.
You have chosen incorrectly. Other than the small players, Mazda, etc., most will want to transition quickly. An electric powertrain is far, far simpler and cheaper than an ICE powertrain. Less labor is needed to assemble it, also. The UAW is scared to death of electric vehicles going mainstream. They know it will be a huge hit to their membership numbers. It is likely their number one worry.

The only players who don't get in the game fast are the ones that can't afford too.
 

Jolteon

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You have chosen incorrectly. Other than the small players, Mazda, etc., most will want to transition quickly. An electric powertrain is far, far simpler and cheaper than an ICE powertrain. Less labor is needed to assemble it, also. The UAW is scared to death of electric vehicles going mainstream. They know it will be a huge hit to their membership numbers. It is likely their number one worry.

The only players who don't get in the game fast are the ones that can't afford too.
I never said Ford was the *slowest* to transition.

Just that they are transitioning painfully slowly, and are at significant risk of being left behind in the EV future.

There's no reason whatsoever Ford couldn't bring the UAW along on this EV journey - battery cell, module, pack, motor, inverter, etc. production all in house by UAW men and women.

Ford just doesn't want to vertically integrate in case this whole "EV" thing turns out to be the fad they hope it is, I feel.
 

trutolife27

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I never said Ford was the *slowest* to transition.

Just that they are transitioning painfully slowly, and are at significant risk of being left behind in the EV future.

There's no reason whatsoever Ford couldn't bring the UAW along on this EV journey - battery cell, module, pack, motor, inverter, etc. production all in house by UAW men and women.

Ford just doesn't want to vertically integrate in case this whole "EV" thing turns out to be the fad they hope it is, I feel.
UAW is its own, not ford. everyone is moving to the EV market. At the pace, they decide on. Ford is moving quicker than just about everyone. How many have a vehicle like the Mache? The id3 and id4 really just the same. Model 3 and model y really the same.
 

Jolteon

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UAW is its own, not ford. everyone is moving to the EV market. At the pace, they decide on. Ford is moving quicker than just about everyone. How many have a vehicle like the Mache? The id3 and id4 really just the same. Model 3 and model y really the same.
I really can't see that, I truly can't. I see Ford dipping a toe in, and VW jumping fully in.

Ford has announced 1 ground-up EV, and then they're cramming batteries into Transit and F-150, who knows how that will end up. I'm not optimistic. We've seen over and over and over and over and over again that any EV not built on a dedicated platform always has weaknesses.

Volkswagen has launched 3 new EVs this year, has *dozens* more coming, and is transitioning many plants globally. Ford is... not.

GM has more EVs in the pipeline and bolder commitments to electrics. They're not wasting time with hybrids and plug-in hybrids like Ford is, they're going straight to BEV. They're building their own battery factory. Their own drive motors. Their own power electronics. Just like VW.

Tesla will sell what, 500,000 BEVs globally this year? More next.
Ford will sell...5,000 Mach-Es this year? Maybe 50,000 next?

VW just sold 25,000 ID.3s in September alone.

I want Ford to win, but Ford needs to step up their game. Their plan doesn't get them halfway to where I want them to be.
 

trutolife27

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You know why VW jumped in right. You know VW came to ford asking to partner right. You know that kinda had to make up for a lot of things they did and promised by going electric. More of they had to then they wanted to.
 



 









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