Munro is not happy with the Mach-E, back in Tesla fanboy mode

kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
I actually think that what he said wasn't that bad. He did say that Ford did it better than everybody else. That they just didn't invest in trying to innovate something new. Not everything needs to be started over from scratch just to please him. But he wasn't overly negative about it either.
Sponsored

 

timbop

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Threads
63
Messages
6,729
Reaction score
13,758
Location
New Jersey
Vehicles
Solar powered 2021 MME ER RWD & 2022 Corsair PHEV
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
I actually think that what he said wasn't that bad. He did say that Ford did it better than everybody else. That they just didn't invest in trying to innovate something new. Not everything needs to be started over from scratch just to please him. But he wasn't overly negative about it either.
An absolutely fair assessment.

Except that the "hook" of it being a "nightmare" is a little ridiculous.
 

RonTCat

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ron
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Threads
27
Messages
1,110
Reaction score
2,927
Location
USA
Vehicles
Mach-E wannabuy
Country flag
Ford has been using battery/drive cooling since about 2005 on hybrid vehicles. While this system may not be optimal in Munro's opinion, it is one thing: proven. With a new vehicle, you want proven. I'm sure Ford could have saved a few pennies by trying to redesign a system that is a fairly bulletproof design, but why? To take a risk to save a few pennies... not worth it. I'm sure the design will be carefully optimized through the years.

Munro has some good ideas, because he has tons of experience and has seen lots of different designs. But he also makes some really bad calls and blunders, and most people unfortunately can't tell the difference. He has tilted toward "fishing for business" the last few years, and his commentary is not nearly what it used to be.
 

raadsel

Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
13
Reaction score
13
Location
Houston, TX
Vehicles
Ford CMax
Country flag
No. Those other covers are to get to the 12v battery, the fuse panel, the high voltage battery connectors, and other stuff. Why would I want to need to remove the tub to test the 12v battery or change a fuse?
But that doesn't invalidate the point Sandy was making. Ford could still cast most of those pieces into a single tub, with some type of cover or other mechanism so that you can get to the 12V battery, fuse panel (which Munroe thinks should be replaced with circuit breakers, which don't need to be replaced), etc. Ford could still change it from the 10ish parts to 3 or 4; making it cheaper to build and easier to service.
 

JoeDimwit

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Threads
67
Messages
1,712
Reaction score
3,239
Location
Waterford
Vehicles
Grabber Blue First Edition
Occupation
Electrician
Country flag
But that doesn't invalidate the point Sandy was making. Ford could still cast most of those pieces into a single tub, with some type of cover or other mechanism so that you can get to the 12V battery, fuse panel (which Munroe thinks should be replaced with circuit breakers, which don't need to be replaced), etc. Ford could still change it from the 10ish parts to 3 or 4; making it cheaper to build and easier to service.
If all those parts being covered with access panels were located close to each other maybe. But if you look where the parts actually sit, you’ll see that it would be impractical to make 3 parts that would cover everything while still providing access.
 


timbop

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Threads
63
Messages
6,729
Reaction score
13,758
Location
New Jersey
Vehicles
Solar powered 2021 MME ER RWD & 2022 Corsair PHEV
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
Ford could still change it from the 10ish parts to 3 or 4; making it cheaper to build and easier to service.
But would it really make much difference? As @RonTCat pointed out, the design is similar to what Ford has done successfully for 16 years. Despite all of Tesla's innovations they still lose money selling every car and the model Y is no cheaper than the comparable Mach E. Maybe the economy of scale using the parts bin approach is actually more cost effective in the long run?
 

timbop

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Threads
63
Messages
6,729
Reaction score
13,758
Location
New Jersey
Vehicles
Solar powered 2021 MME ER RWD & 2022 Corsair PHEV
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
But would it really make much difference? As @RonTCat pointed out, the design is similar to what Ford has done successfully for 16 years. Despite all of Tesla's innovations they still lose money selling every car and the model Y is no cheaper than the comparable Mach E. Maybe the economy of scale using the parts bin approach is actually more cost effective in the long run?
Another aspect is parts suppliers and repair shops. Stocking custom parts for each vehicle takes more space and money tied up in inventory. By using the same COTS components in all their cars, Ford actually reduces the overhead of warehousing those spare parts.
 

jlauro

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
1,069
Reaction score
842
Location
Owosso, MI
Vehicles
2021 Infinite Blue AWD ER Mach-E
Country flag
If all those parts being covered with access panels were located close to each other maybe. But if you look where the parts actually sit, you’ll see that it would be impractical to make 3 parts that would cover everything while still providing access.
So you are saying Ford really messed up the design by having those separated? To me it looked like the battery and fuses were not that impractical to cover better.
 

jlauro

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
1,069
Reaction score
842
Location
Owosso, MI
Vehicles
2021 Infinite Blue AWD ER Mach-E
Country flag
But would it really make much difference? As @RonTCat pointed out, the design is similar to what Ford has done successfully for 16 years. Despite all of Tesla's innovations they still lose money selling every car and the model Y is no cheaper than the comparable Mach E. Maybe the economy of scale using the parts bin approach is actually more cost effective in the long run?
Is that so? What other vehicle(s) does ford cover up the 12V battery with a huge cover covering half the area under the hood with easy to break clips?

Stop the FUD about model Y losing money. Tesla might bake in regulatory credit sales as part of it's pricing. As long as the company makes a profit overall, it doesn't matter if a model appears to be losing money unless you are a short seller or maybe an stock holder. (Disclaimer I have no stocks or shorts on Tesla).
 
Last edited:

Scarpia

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
464
Reaction score
701
Location
SoCal
Vehicles
Infinite Blue Premium, Standard Range, RWD
Country flag
Is that so? What other vehicle(s) does ford cover up the 12V battery with a huge cover covering half the area under the hood with easy to break clips?
What other vehicle(s) made by Ford have a cargo area under the front hood instead of an engine?

Not defending the design -- I don't like it -- but don't compare it to their other cars. It's obviously a different scenario.
 

jlauro

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
1,069
Reaction score
842
Location
Owosso, MI
Vehicles
2021 Infinite Blue AWD ER Mach-E
Country flag
What other vehicle(s) made by Ford have a cargo area under the front hood instead of an engine?

Not defending the design -- I don't like it -- but don't compare it to their other cars. It's obviously a different scenario.
It was @timbop that compared it saying other vehicles were similar, not me. I was asking which ones.
 

Jimmy2

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jimmy
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Threads
17
Messages
661
Reaction score
811
Location
Wilmington NC
Vehicles
21 MME Premium 4EX; 23 MME GTPE Vapor Blue Met
Country flag
I've now seen Sandy's video, so I'll give you my impressions from someone who does not understand well, how EVs work. I saw all those hoses and four pumps under the frunk, just like you. It was an interesting sight. I wish I understood it better and was hoping Sandy would explain in more detail, but he didn't. I'm not bashing Sandy here.
I'm not going to pretend to offer an explanation of what the engineers and bean counters at Ford were thinking, but I would like to try and get a better, basic understanding of how the components are cooled:
1. Which of the several components in the MME get the hottest / how hot compared to ICE? / how much pressure compared with ICE hose?
2. What liquids are in our MMEs running through those hoses?

Only thing I do know is that heat is the enemy of electrical components and the enemy of the battery as well. And in the cold of the winter; we have to heat things up, not only for our comfort but for the battery as well to take a fast charge.
 

theo1000

Well-Known Member
First Name
Theo
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
473
Reaction score
607
Location
Shawnee, KS
Vehicles
Mach-E 2021 IB, Audi Etron, Chevy Volt, BMW I3,
Country flag
Is that so? What other vehicle(s) does ford cover up the 12V battery with a huge cover covering half the area under the hood with easy to break clips?
I see this 12v thing again and again and am puzzled. In all my EV's number of times 12v battery replaced, zero. Yes my 12 year old volt still has the original 12v battery. Never had to change one. Never had to jump one either. Number of time my Tundra 12v battery changed in 9 year 5 times! Number needed jump start, more than a dozen. EV's are just different IME.

Maybe Ford knows this folks. Just a thought.
 

Sagacity

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matthew
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
51
Reaction score
159
Location
Utah
Vehicles
Mach E GT/PE, 2015 Limited Edition Mustang GT 0146
Occupation
Network Administrator
Country flag
I watched the video this weekend before ever seeing this thread. My take away wasn't that he was bashing Ford or the MME. In a lot of his other MME videos he actually praises some of Ford's design decisions and the car's features, ride, intuitive layout decisions etc. Some of the things are just conjecture as he admits he doesn't know the why or how behind some design decisions.
I do think that having more COTS parts does help with inventory and also repair parts. One ECU goes out you replace the box. 5 ECU's consolidated into a single box means all 5 ECU's get replaced for single component failure within the box.
Sponsored

 
 




Top