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dbsb3233

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I assume that electric F-150 owners are going to demand a much larger charging network. Since small town dealer sales are mostly truck sales and if there really is electric demand in those areas, Ford will need to quickly figure out the infrastructure needs. Which means leveraging nationwide dealer locations? Looking at the dealership map, every area is covers except Area 51.

I don’t even Tesla knows the needs of rural electric Truck buyers.
I don't think they can "demand" anything, they'll just keep buying ICE or hybrid F-150's if they don't think a BEV version will work for their situation. And Ford will be even happier to sell those to them (at a bigger profit margin).

Ford isn't Tesla. Telsa was stuck having to build a charging network because they don't sell ICE cars. Their only products requires a charging network. Ford doesn't need to do that. They know they can ease into BEV offerings to customers that can do nearly all their charging at home, with just a little public charging as companies like EA, EVGo, Chargepoint, etc gradually roll out. I don't think Ford (or GM, VW, Kia, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, etc) want to get into the charging business too (other than maybe a little kickstart investment.)
 

Mach Daddy

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I don't think they can "demand" anything, they'll just keep buying ICE or hybrid F-150's if they don't think a BEV version will work for their situation. And Ford will be even happier to sell those to them (at a bigger profit margin).

Ford isn't Tesla. Telsa was stuck having to build a charging network because they don't sell ICE cars. Their only products requires a charging network. Ford doesn't need to do that. They know they can ease into BEV offerings to customers that can do nearly all their charging at home, with just a little public charging as companies like EA, EVGo, Chargepoint, etc gradually roll out. I don't think Ford (or GM, VW, Kia, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, etc) want to get into the charging business too (other than maybe a little kickstart investment.)
I don’t think having chargers at each of their dealerships is getting into the charging business, rather it’s serving their customers. And don’t forget that governments outside of the US have stricter requirements for EV adoption. How long much longer will the IS remain the exception.
 

dbsb3233

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I don’t think having chargers at each of their dealerships is getting into the charging business, rather it’s serving their customers. And don’t forget that governments outside of the US have stricter requirements for EV adoption. How long much longer will the IS remain the exception.
Having a couple of chargers for internal use and as demonstration for customers isn't getting into the charging business. But expecting them to be open to the general public to come in and use them at any time (especially L3) is getting into the charging business IMO. Especially because it wouldn't make sense to give L3 power away for free to the general public. Any more than it makes sense for them to set up public gas pumps and give gasoline fill-ups away for free.

Outside the US (especially Europe), who knows what some aggressive governments may mandate. But I'm just referring to the US. A few dealerships may choose to be generous with chargers, but I really think people will be disappointed if they expect open-to-the-public L3 charging at 2000 Ford dealerships in the US. (Although I get why drivers would wish for that.)
 

ChasingCoral

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Most Nissan dealers have chargers and many have L3s. These are usually available to the public.

IMHO it would be a nice move for Ford dealers. Stop, charge, look at the new BEVs Ford has to offer.
 

dbsb3233

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Most Nissan dealers have chargers and many have L3s. These are usually available to the public.

IMHO it would be a nice move for Ford dealers. Stop, charge, look at the new BEVs Ford has to offer.
Nissan was the other "Tesla" though... sold a BEV (the Leaf) many years before EA and other L3 charging networks really existed in the US. And since Tesla was proprietary, Nissan kinda had to bite the bullet.

It's a different situation for Ford (and the other manufacturers). They waited long enough for there to be networks of L3 chargers around the US.

No doubt it would be a "nice move" (for BEV owners) for anyone to set up more chargers. And a few dealers may. But again, I wouldn't expect open-to-the-public L3 charging at 2000 Ford dealerships. I'd be surprised if more than a dozen do. Might be a few more L2 chargers left unsecured though (although even then I wouldn't expect a whole network).
 

Mach Daddy

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Having a couple of chargers for internal use and as demonstration for customers isn't getting into the charging business. But expecting them to be open to the general public to come in and use them at any time (especially L3) is getting into the charging business IMO. Especially because it wouldn't make sense to give L3 power away for free to the general public. Any more than it makes sense for them to set up public gas pumps and give gasoline fill-ups away for free.

Outside the US (especially Europe), who knows what some aggressive governments may mandate. But I'm just referring to the US. A few dealerships may choose to be generous with chargers, but I really think people will be disappointed if they expect open-to-the-public L3 charging at 2000 Ford dealerships in the US. (Although I get why drivers would wish for that.)
Just to be clear, I wasn’t pushing for free charging, rather the availability of charging. And also wasn’t pushing for opening chargers to the public... though that would be nice.

If a dealership sells EVs and have fast charging available then why not open it to other Ford customers passing by. Lots would be willing to pay.
 

dbsb3233

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If a dealership sells EVs and have fast charging available then why not open it to other Ford customers passing by. Lots would be willing to pay.
That's tricky to justify from a cost basis though, because it's still the cost of installing and maintaining a retail L3 charging station, but with only a fraction of the customers (Ford-only). It's basically like EA setting up a station with "Fords-only" pumps. It's already hard for them to generate enough usage accepting all CCS BEVs.

Plus, dealerships don't make the ideal locations for chargers anyway. Many are on "dealership row" where it's not short walking distance to restaurants and stores. That's where the vast majority of retail L3 chargers need to be, IMO -- in the parking lots of stores and restaurants where people can productively use that 30-60 minutes to do other things.

EA was smart to partner with Walmart to place many of their stations in their lots along interstates. Now I think it would be smart for them (or a competitor) to form a similar partnership with McDonald, or Yum Brand restaurants (KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell).
 

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Nissan was the other "Tesla" though... sold a BEV (the Leaf) many years before EA and other L3 charging networks really existed in the US. And since Tesla was proprietary, Nissan kinda had to bite the bullet.

It's a different situation for Ford (and the other manufacturers). They waited long enough for there to be networks of L3 chargers around the US.

No doubt it would be a "nice move" (for BEV owners) for anyone to set up more chargers. And a few dealers may. But again, I wouldn't expect open-to-the-public L3 charging at 2000 Ford dealerships. I'd be surprised if more than a dozen do. Might be a few more L2 chargers left unsecured though (although even then I wouldn't expect a whole network).
Yes, Nissan was the other early racer off the mark. However, when Ford starts selling BEV F-150s in rural America, they will be in a similar situation. There's a Ford dealership near rural Ohiopyle, PA with lots of F-150s on the lot. There are no other named dealers anywhere around, just used car lots. Having a charger that's open during business hours will make sense when they start trying to sell BEVs. There are lots more like them, too.
 

dbsb3233

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Yes, Nissan was the other early racer off the mark. However, when Ford starts selling BEV F-150s in rural America, they will be in a similar situation. There's a Ford dealership near rural Ohiopyle, PA with lots of F-150s on the lot. There are no other named dealers anywhere around, just used car lots. Having a charger that's open during business hours will make sense when they start trying to sell BEVs. There are lots more like them, too.
Perhaps. But honestly, I don't think many BEV F-150s will be selling there. I expect those to be over 99% ICE. If I lived somewhere where charging was that scarce, I'd buy ICE (or PHEV).

Metro areas with more infrastructure are more apt to see some BEV F-150 sales.
 

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I don’t even Tesla knows the needs of rural electric Truck buyers.
If Tesla ignores entire states in its supercharging network, there’s little chance it’ll even give a moments thought about rural truck buyers.

The local Ford dealers out here will have the highest powered DC chargers in the state, courtesy of Ford’s arm twisting. Ford: 9 Tesla: 0.
 

jhalkias

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It will be interesting to see range on those F-150’s. If a rural buyer buys one, I doubt they are buying it for road trips so having L3 available chargers may be a moot point anyway. The Hybrid F-150 may be a better choice anyway with that generator.

I am thinking a LOT of those BEV F-150’s will be sold to people like us - who want a truck, have our chargers, and live in the burbs.
 

Mach Daddy

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It will be interesting to see range on those F-150’s. If a rural buyer buys one, I doubt they are buying it for road trips so having L3 available chargers may be a moot point anyway. The Hybrid F-150 may be a better choice anyway with that generator.

I am thinking a LOT of those BEV F-150’s will be sold to people like us - who want a truck, have our chargers, and live in the burbs.
Agree, but suburban F-150 owners will have different needs and demands than us MME owners. I don’t think they will be happy with something that’s good enough for the commute.

The shape and height of a truck is not very aero and towing something behind will completely kill your range. So unless Ford plans to include a massive battery or some revolutionary chemistry with the e150 then they will need to rely on a network to meet consumer demands. Whether that’s through investing in companies, partnerships or incentivizing chargers at dealerships is up to Ford.

However if Ford is targeting companies and consumers who need a truck for daily work within a short range then yeah, no problem.
 

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If Tesla ignores entire states in its supercharging network, there’s little chance it’ll even give a moments thought about rural truck buyers.

The local Ford dealers out here will have the highest powered DC chargers in the state, courtesy of Ford’s arm twisting. Ford: 9 Tesla: 0.
What states have they ignored, other than Alaska and Hawaii?
 

Mach-MI

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Contrary to popular opinion both of those states count. There have been more than 48 states since January 3, 1959.
I didn't imply they didn't count. I'm just pointing out that even at 48 state coverage, they're better than some "nationwide" CCS networks that stop even farther short (EA).
 



 








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