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I find Tesla fanboys to be insufferable and incapable of acknowledging shortcomings with Tesla or the achievements of other OEMs.

Just on the pricing alone, it boggles my mind how the Tesla club fails to see how close the MSRP gap is.

Example, I have a reservation for a Premium AWD ER in Rapid Red with the light interior. It's $58,700 MSRP with 19" alloys.
Model Y Dual Motor LR in multicoat red and white interior is $55,990 MSRP. Add the 20" alloy wheels and it's $57,990.

So we're talking about an MSRP price difference of $2710 to $710. If I join the Mustang Club of America for $35 and pay the $275 fee at the time of purchase to take advantage of the X-plan pricing?

My $58,700 Mustang Mach-E is now $57,526 +$35+$275 = $57,836. So ends up actually cheaper than the 20" alloy rimmed Model Y.

Granted, this is a bunch of moving numbers around but my point is that the pricing is not as far apart as some would have you believe.
 

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I find Tesla fanboys to be insufferable and incapable of acknowledging shortcomings with Tesla or the achievements of other OEMs.

Just on the pricing alone, it boggles my mind how the Tesla club fails to see how close the MSRP gap is.

Example, I have a reservation for a Premium AWD ER in Rapid Red with the light interior. It's $58,700 MSRP with 19" alloys.
Model Y Dual Motor LR in multicoat red and white interior is $55,990 MSRP. Add the 20" alloy wheels and it's $57,990.

So we're talking about an MSRP price difference of $2710 to $710. If I join the Mustang Club of America for $35 and pay the $275 fee at the time of purchase?

My $58,700 Mustang Mach-E is now $57,526 +$35+$275 = $57,836. So ends up actually cheaper than the 20" alloy rimmed Model Y.

Granted, this is a bunch of moving numbers around but my point is that the pricing is not as far apart as some would have you believe.
Don't forget 7500 in tax credits
 

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Don't forget 7500 in tax credits
Not everyone qualifies for $7500 so to make it totally comparable, I went with MSRP and literally anyone can join Mustang Club of America to get the X-plan pricing.
 

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every car has recalls, but Tesla Model X 15,000 recalled with steering problems.. ouch... hope that Mach E can keep the first model year issues to a minimum..
I hope so too. But like you said, every manufacturer has recalls. Ford recalled 240,000 cars yesterday :)
 
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Bravo. A Tesla owner with objectivity, you are a rare breed. 👍 Thank you for sharing your extensive thoughts. I had considered a Tesla but the lack of service centers and how backed up they all are really dissuaded me. I've heard of months long waits for replacement parts too. Someone I know with a Model X needed his entire rear drive shaft replaced and it still hasn't come in after months of waiting.
Yes, I had to wait three months for a PARKING SENSOR!!!! Had an incident on the highway.
 

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@mark360

What a nice break down of your M3 Experience. I of course subjected myself to reading the TMC comments after this same thread was posted there too and like clock-work, the Cultists were out in full; Pitchforks and torches shaking wildly for Mark and anyone who dares to speak anything but full, 100% praise of anything Tesla.

I of course have said many times on this forum that I was a Model 3 Rezzy Holder but then asked for the refund to wait for the Model Y, but now that Ford has such an exciting option, I have decided to go for the Mach-E and it only took days to put my money down on a Rezzy. Having said all that too, I am a believer that Tesla is the undisputed leader in battery tech, on Autonomous Driving and FSD capabilities and like others, I do believe the rest of the industry is trying to catch up to Tesla's sizable, 5+ year head start and given their acquisition of Maxwell, the capacitors company last years, I think their leadership and innovation in the world of batteries is second to none.

I find it somewhat amusing but also concerning that any new BEV which enters the market is resoundingly poo-pooed by the Cultists but understandably, since the Model S came on the scene, any and every BEV has been lauded as a 'Tesla Killer' and so far no company has even come close to that sort of competition for Tesla. Could Ford be that car maker? Yes. Am I anxious and hopeful that Ford is the company to give Tesla a run for its money, yes. Do I think the Mach-E and Ford as a whole will eclipse Tesla in their BEV segments, NO. But these Tesla people want to save the planet and want to push 'the future is electric' idea, but then they are the first to take the hammer to any new-comers to the scene. Now, admittedly, they do hold these other car makers accountable for claims and results and many times they are correct, however, they also are quick to forget just over a year ago, Tesla's issues with Model 3's ramp, and 'Production Hell', and the over 10 years of no profits and a host of other issues that have beset the company... that being said, I think with the later Model 3s and now definitely with the Model Y lines, both here in the US and in China, those issue may indeed be behind them for good. Time will tell.

But to say that a M3 has fit and finish squeaks and rattles, does not condemn the whole car... just like saying that Ford and every other car maker doesn't have some issues with NVH (Noice, Vibration and Harshness), especially as things get more worn and older. But to think that Ford will have the same issues in NVH as Tesla, does seem a bit far off, since Ford invented the assembly line.

Likewise, talking down Ford's Dealership Network by saying ridiculous things like, "Guaranteed they have huge service issues when the thing gets released." or "And you seriously think the average Ford dealership is prepared to service the Mach E?!"

I get it, these people don't like the dealership model. Ok, that's fine.
Yes, there are drawbacks to the dealer model... mainly ADMs (automatic dealer markups) on cars. Well, first, only the highest of high-end Cars usually experience ADMs... GT500s, Hellcats, and other hot-to-trot cars get dealer markups... but then there are a VAST number, dare I say the majority of dealers, who do not charge any ADM, and I have never bought any car from a dealer with an ADM, and it's their right to mark their cars up, just as it is the right of the consumer to bypass that dealer and look for another one without an ADM...

And other than 'high' labor costs. there are some jobs that dealers just do better with... not always, but sometimes. I know if I sent my DeLorean to an official DMC 'Dealer' I was looking at $130 bucks for labor, right from the start... and seeing a dealer charge $80 - $120 is the norm... however, I have never paid much dealer labor because every new car we've purchased had a warranty, and I was never charged much for work (or we also purchased used car warranties through my credit union and Ford's used car warranty providers... it was way worth it)

Then with my cars that are out of warranty, only in the most adverse cases would I take the car to the dealer, when my local garage that I trust with all my vehicles, only charges $40-$50 a hour... so to discount the advantage of the dealer network is at worst, shortsightedness on the Tesla people's part, and at best it's a clear sign that the sacraments of the Tesla Cult have taken hold.
I mean, just as @mark360 said, for a lot of people, driving two hours one way for a routine service or major repair is a big deal, as opposed to most people living in the US, who are between 1-10 miles away from a Ford Dealer, so many, that choice is easy.

To poo-poo the dealer network of the Legacy Car Makers, is I think a bit short-sighted from the Cult.

Thanks again Mark for the post and hang in there as you take the slings and arrows from the Cult.
 
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@mark360

What a nice break down of your M3 Experience. I of course subjected myself to reading the TMC comments after this same thread was posted there too and like clock-work, the Cultists were out in full; Pitchforks and torches shaking wildly for Mark and anyone who dares to speak anything but full, 100% praise of anything Tesla.

I of course have said many times on this forum that I was a Model 3 Rezzy Holder but then asked for the refund to wait for the Model Y, but now that Ford has such an exciting option, I have decided to go for the Mach-E and it only took days to put my money down on a Rezzy. Having said all that too, I am a believer that Tesla is the undisputed leader in battery tech, on Autonomous Driving and FSD capabilities and like others, I do believe the rest of the industry is trying to catch up to Tesla's sizable, 5+ year head start and given their acquisition of Maxwell, the capacitors company last years, I think their leadership and innovation in the world of batteries is second to none.

I find it somewhat amusing but also concerning that any new BEV which enters the market is resoundingly poo-pooed by the Cultists but understandably, since the Model S came on the scene, any and every BEV has been lauded as a 'Tesla Killer' and so far no company has even come close to that sort of competition for Tesla. Could Ford be that car maker? Yes. Am I anxious and hopeful that Ford is the company to give Tesla a run for its money, yes. Do I think the Mach-E and Ford as a whole will eclipse Tesla in their BEV segments, NO. But these Tesla people want to save the planet and want to push 'the future is electric' idea, but then they are the first to take the hammer to any new-comers to the scene. Now, admittedly, they do hold these other car makers accountable for claims and results and many times they are correct, however, they also are quick to forget just over a year ago, Tesla's issues with Model 3's ramp, and 'Production Hell', and the over 10 years of no profits and a host of other issues that have beset the company... that being said, I think with the later Model 3s and now definitely with the Model Y lines, both here in the US and in China, those issue may indeed be behind them for good. Time will tell.

But to say that a M3 has fit and finish squeaks and rattles, does not condemn the whole car... just like saying that Ford and every other car maker doesn't have some issues with NVH (Noice, Vibration and Harshness), especially as things get more worn and older. But to think that Ford will have the same issues in NVH as Tesla, does seem a bit far off, since Ford invented the assembly line.

Likewise, talking down Ford's Dealership Network by saying ridiculous things like, "Guaranteed they have huge service issues when the thing gets released." or "And you seriously think the average Ford dealership is prepared to service the Mach E?!"

I get it, these people don't like the dealership model. Ok, that's fine.
Yes, there are drawbacks to the dealer model... mainly ADMs (automatic dealer markups) on cars. Well, first, only the highest of high-end Cars usually experience ADMs... GT500s, Hellcats, and other hot-to-trot cars get dealer markups... but then there are a VAST number, dare I say the majority of dealers, who do not charge any ADM, and I have never bought any car from a dealer with an ADM, and it's their right to mark their cars up, just as it is the right of the consumer to bypass that dealer and look for another one without an ADM...

And other than 'high' labor costs. there are some jobs that dealers just do better with... not always, but sometimes. I know if I sent my DeLorean to an official DMC 'Dealer' I was looking at $130 bucks for labor, right from the start... and seeing a dealer charge $80 - $120 is the norm... however, I have never paid much dealer labor because every new car we've purchased had a warranty, and I was never charged much for work (or we also purchased used car warranties through my credit union and Ford's used car warranty providers... it was way worth it)

Then with my cars that are out of warranty, only in the most adverse cases would I take the car to the dealer, when my local garage that I trust with all my vehicles, only charges $40-$50 a hour... so to discount the advantage of the dealer network is at worst, shortsightedness on the Tesla people's part, and at best it's a clear sign that the sacraments of the Tesla Cult have taken hold.
I mean, just as @mark360 said, for a lot of people, driving two hours one way for a routine service or major repair is a big deal, as opposed to most people living in the US, who are between 1-10 miles away from a Ford Dealer, so many, that choice is easy.

To poo-poo the dealer network of the Legacy Car Makers, is I think a bit short-sighted from the Cult.

Thanks again Mark for the post and hang in there as you take the slings and arrows from the Cult.
Wow, excellent post dmcerm and I appreciate the support. Yeah, I am not bashing the car but just being honest and I didn't even get into all the negative of owning a tesla.

What about when it took me 3-4 months to get a front parking sensor? If your Tesla needs parts, some times it can take half a year to a year to get a part for it.

I certainly think that people would start to realize how bad it is without dealers if everyone adopted the Tesla Model, no true competition, everyone pay the same price, no where to trade in your car, hardly any customer service etc etc. Part of the fun of buying vehicles is thinking you get such a good deal on it and can't pass it up.

We can all complain all we want, but honestly the way the legacy automakers are doing it works.

Thanks again.
 

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@mark360, @LYTMCQ @Nak

You guys are Tesla owners, how has the mobile service been for you?

The nearest Ford dealer is ~25 mins away from me and I hate the thought of trying to get over to that part of town for someone to look at a faulty power window motor or squeaky lift hatch hydraulic arm. Tesla's mobile service is a huge draw for me as much as the Supercharger Network.
 
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@mark360, @LYTMCQ @Nak

You guys are Tesla owners, how has the mobile service been for you?

The nearest Ford dealer is ~25 mins away from me and I hate the thought of trying to get over to that part of town for someone to look at a faulty power window motor or squeaky lift hatch hydraulic arm. Tesla's mobile service is a huge draw for me as much as the Supercharger Network.
Non existent. They do not offer mobile service where I am at. Plus, mobile service is very limited. What is stopping a local ford dealer from sending a tech to your house to pick up your car? Mobile service is a guise for Tesla IMO, but I'm sure in the big cities it is available. Think of it like this, they run out of your local service center. Mine is two hours away. They are not going to come that far out of the way to do a service on my car and they won't, which is why I drove two hours on 3-4 occasions in the past year.
 

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@mark360, @LYTMCQ @Nak

You guys are Tesla owners, how has the mobile service been for you?

The nearest Ford dealer is ~25 mins away from me and I hate the thought of trying to get over to that part of town for someone to look at a faulty power window motor or squeaky lift hatch hydraulic arm. Tesla's mobile service is a huge draw for me as much as the Supercharger Network.
While I am not an owner, my neighbor is and has had great mobile service. They came to his house. Maybe it is location dependent though. This is in the Midwest.
 

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Wow, excellent post dmcerm and I appreciate the support. Yeah, I am not bashing the car but just being honest and I didn't even get into all the negative of owning a tesla.

What about when it took me 3-4 months to get a front parking sensor? If your Tesla needs parts, some times it can take half a year to a year to get a part for it.

I certainly think that people would start to realize how bad it is without dealers if everyone adopted the Tesla Model, no true competition, everyone pay the same price, no where to trade in your car, hardly any customer service etc etc. Part of the fun of buying vehicles is thinking you get such a good deal on it and can't pass it up.

We can all complain all we want, but honestly the way the legacy automakers are doing it works.

Thanks again.
Absolutely.
I find that being a true believer in what Tesla has done and is doing with making the BEV a plausible reality for a great many more people has me in a unique position of being both an enthusiast of Tesla but also being a Ford Guy at my core, and it wasn't until the Mach-E came on the scene that I had any viable option from the Blue Oval. It was either buy a Tesla Model 3 and later a Y or nothing... until the Mach-E.
But as with any car, from any manufacturer, there will be issues. Always. It's often how the companies go about fixing things that shows their real commitment.

And the dealers while not perfect are there to be as close as convenient as possible. Whereas Tesla's model with longer drives for service and Mobile Service Techs (to some areas, not all) is what they've come up with, and it seems to work for them.

The Tesla Cult also doesn't like dealers because of the opposition the dealer owner's associations have put up, through franchising laws (good or bad, dealer groups were able lobby to make the laws what they are, and some states are changing those laws as we all see stifling competition as never a good thing) to close segments of the Free Market to "outsiders" like Tesla. Now me being a Tesla Fan as well as a Free Market Guy, I don't like that the dealer associations can shut out competitors... let the products (and service) speak for itself... but to damn the entire dealer network because of these old laws isn't right either... slowly states are changing those laws to be more free market and Tesla is free to openly lobby local, state and Federal officials to get those laws changed, and I'd support them doing that.
But again, anything that isnt Full-on Tesla is demonized by its congregants.

And finally, to say "and you seriously think the average Ford Dealer is going to be able to service the Mach-E?"as was typed in the TMC thread... well, yeah, quite frankly I do believe the "average Ford Dealer" will be able to service the Mach-E because the Dealer Model means:
Shop Service Managers get trained ahead of time,
Techs get trained ahead of time, Salespeople get trained ahead of time, Dealerships themselves get renovated to accommodate a new product ahead of time and parts are ordered for all involved dealerships ahead of time to have many commonly used parts on hand.

And my favorite part is, these Legacy Makers spool up their resources to print (sorry tree huggers) massive Service Manuals and supplementary documents to send to the dealers to have resources on hand to fix stuff and all this is done AHEAD of time.
A Legacy like Ford doesn't wait until a year and a half into a new car to close some stores, then open some again, or only send spare parts to certain areas... don't get me wrong, dealers have issues with parts too sometimes, but much of the time a FoMoCo part that needs shipped in is prioritized and arrives in 2 days or less depending.
So all participating dealers WILL be schooled on the Mach-E and how to sell and service it BEFORE they hit show rooms... not waiting until 50, 000 cars are out there having issues while scrambling to keep things together.
Am I man enough to post this on one of their Cult message boards, heck no! Lol!
But it's all true.
 
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@mark360, @LYTMCQ @Nak
You guys are Tesla owners, how has the mobile service been for you?

OK. They came out, drove in the car with me so I could show them that Lane Keeping does not work in Model 3's. They agreed but could not fix it and the service report said "within normal limits'.
 

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Likewise, talking down Ford's Dealership Network by saying ridiculous things like, "Guaranteed they have huge service issues when the thing gets released."
Likely no cars have had more huge service issues than Tesla. Often sold as "car that never needs service" but the Tesla Service Centers are jammed with Tesla getting fixed and service appointments 3-4 weeks out. That will continue after the car is out of warranty and then the customer will start paying for service on their "no service vehicle". Likely that lucrative work on out of warranty cars started a while ago on Model S and X's and will build up fast for Model 3's.
 

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My coworker had an April/May 2018 build Model 3 with some niggles but I was impressed with how Mobile Service came out and worked on his car a couple of times in a downtown alley to fix some smaller issues (power window and a puddle light). It was cool looking out the office window and seeing them down there hard at work.

My FIL is in SW Idaho with a June 2018 build and they've been out to his house to do some repairs on some loose trim and a broken glovebox. He's a hard man to please but he was thrilled.

It's stellar experiences like those that makes me think Tesla isn't a bad choice to consider. I just don't know if my anecdotes are par for the course or outliers. Service Centers are definitely a bottleneck for those guys though.
 

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Mobile service when the closet service center is like 325 miles away? Unlikely. Plus for the dealership mode.
 
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