Cjpayne

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Actually if they have already been Titled to the owner, they are ineligible for the $7,500 Fed Tax Credit, so are effectively selling for $5,500 above MSRP
All marked new. You think new car dealers are taking advantage of the tax credit?
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Mach1E

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All new and at dealers.

All marked new. You could be correct on the 3 at one dealer. One could be a cancelled order, but with pics and the other one says available for test drive. Why would they be advertising below MSRP? I have not looked at many ads while I wait for my GT, but this seemed unusual?
In a former life I did advertising for car dealers. They put anything they can in the ads as discounts and then include a bunch of disclaimers.

Could be “military only” or “with special financing” or trade assistance like the one I found (which isn’t really anything if they give you a terrible offer on a trade in).
 

Cjpayne

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In a former life I did advertising for car dealers. They put anything they can in the ads as discounts and then include a bunch of disclaimers.

Could be “military only” or “with special financing” or trade assistance like the one I found (which isn’t really anything if they give you a terrible offer on a trade in).
I am fortunate to have a great dealer to work with as I am a trusting soul. One of my defects. I always want to believe the best in everyone. I hope I have a great experience with my GT so I can write about it on this forum.
 

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Looked on cars.com and all 5 of the GT listed within a 100 miles of my location are $2- 3,000 below MSRP.
Sort of interesting. I see 6 in my area. Four are "not priced", the other two are at, or just slightly below, MSRP. I am not seeing any of the Performance Edition listed, just regular GTs.
 

MrClean

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Sort of interesting. I see 6 in my area. Four are "not priced", the other two are at, or just slightly below, MSRP. I am not seeing any of the Performance Edition listed, just regular GTs.
Same here, Los Angeles area.
 

harrysiii

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Same here, Los Angeles area.
They may not even be available. I picked mine up the day it was delivered and it's on their website now. Another guy waiting on his to come in is on their website with a $5k markup. Lol. They are both most likely also on cars.com and others.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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Ok...so as far as gearing and general point of which motor is doing what, which motor is probably drawing the most power and providing more of the acceleration on a Y/3 after 60mph? I just have a feeling the IM with more ability to do flux management allows it to be the better choice at some points in rev band and that is why it's not a dual IPM design rather than pure cost concerns. You can also get an IM to free wheel without drag.

Not an expert on these perm mag induction EV motors for sure...but somehow would think Tesla would have just used two if there wasn't some reason they were harder to use for broad acceleration into higher speed ranges. Not that they can't be used for max speed, but guessing it gets more complicated than if you have IM and IPM. Generally seems you end up with 3 and 4 motors once they are all IPM and things are very performance oriented.

And the Model 3 RWD cars seems to show even if you can juice them to have a good bit more power in that 0-60 range they start to equalize somehow as you push past that as far as the power to keep the acceleration party going. Seems the goal to go all IPM would be you need to be traction limited until you have pretty steep gearing so the torque drop isn't as big of deal.

Basically I don't think we can be certain the Mach-E design has a great way to just push more juice and get better power later in the rev range. It may just have a wind and such that means it runs out of air at higher revs...all to maximize it's lower rev grunt while keeping the cruise speed level as efficient as possible and such. And I get the impression some of this is why others have IM also or use a gearbox with more than one gear.

I generally don't think we are on as different pages as you are thinking.
@Brofessional

Jeeze guys, will one of you just block the other already? 😂😂😂

cc: @Frankie
 

Davedough

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I don't remember if this has been posted or not, but at the risk of restoking this much gone over argument, I think personally the biggest question Ford needs to address is the advertising in the Model Description that I look at every day while I wait for any update that my car has been built.

1631624204176.png


It clearly says upgraded front motor with enhanced performance, but the data we've seen shows that it barely has any enhancements over the other models, if any. So either it's false advertising or a problem with the platform.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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I don't remember if this has been posted or not, but at the risk of restoking this much gone over argument, I think personally the biggest question Ford needs to address is the advertising in the Model Description that I look at every day while I wait for any update that my car has been built.

1631624204176.png


It clearly says upgraded front motor with enhanced performance, but the data we've seen shows that it barely has any enhancements over the other models, if any. So either it's false advertising or a problem with the platform.
Yep, that sucks, because they technically did enhance it for extra launch acceleration. The claim is accurate as written.
Since there is no specific 1/4 mile mph claim anywhere in any Ford info. I’ve seen there isn’t going to be any recourse if Ford doesn’t fix the trap speed/top end throttling issue.
But, I’m 99.9% sure they will fix it to run a decent amount better than the 4X’s trap speed. Otherwise they will be in a tougher spot to defend themselves.
 

sotek2345

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Yep, that sucks, because they technically did enhance it for extra launch acceleration. The claim is accurate as written.
Since there is no specific 1/4 mile mph claim anywhere in any Ford info. I’ve seen there isn’t going to be any recourse if Ford doesn’t fix the trap speed/top end throttling issue.
But, I’m 99.9% sure they will fix it to run a decent amount better than the 4X’s trap speed. Otherwise they will be in a tougher spot to defend themselves.
Hmmmm. This has me thinking. Does anyone have the breakdown by trim of Mach-e orders? What percentage of sales are the GT / GTPE trim (I know Ford has said it was higher than expected). Could give us an indication of how big this potential "issue" is and if Ford would even care.. If they can sell every Mach-e they can build as soon as it hits the lot, does it even really matter to them if the GTs are a small percentage of overall volume.
 

harrysiii

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Hmmmm. This has me thinking. Does anyone have the breakdown by trim of Mach-e orders? What percentage of sales are the GT / GTPE trim (I know Ford has said it was higher than expected). Could give us an indication of how big this potential "issue" is and if Ford would even care.. If they can sell every Mach-e they can build as soon as it hits the lot, does it even really matter to them if the GTs are a small percentage of overall volume.
I think it will matter. If people are expecting the GT will be quicker and faster than a Premium, and will keep up with a MY and they just don't deliver on that, those orders are going to dwindle. People aren't buying the GT for the badge....they are buying it for performance.
 

buzznwood

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Hmmmm. This has me thinking. Does anyone have the breakdown by trim of Mach-e orders? What percentage of sales are the GT / GTPE trim (I know Ford has said it was higher than expected). Could give us an indication of how big this potential "issue" is and if Ford would even care.. If they can sell every Mach-e they can build as soon as it hits the lot, does it even really matter to them if the GTs are a small percentage of overall volume.
When ford announced information on the reservations break downs, colors trims etc way back in march last year around 30% of the reservations where for the GT. With all the delays in releasing it has actually given Ford ample time during development to benchmark the GT across the competition.

Sure there have been unavoidable delays but reservation owners are only now starting to get vehicles that they reserved nearly TWO years ago, and 30% of reservations is not a small % so Ford has no excuses for half arsing it.
 

sotek2345

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I think it will matter. If people are expecting the GT will be quicker and faster than a Premium, and will keep up with a MY and they just don't deliver on that, those orders are going to dwindle. People aren't buying the GT for the badge....they are buying it for performance.
Right, but Mach-e sales are already pretty low (as a fraction of Ford's business). If the GT is only ~30% of Mach-e sales, is it worth fixing (for Ford)?
That is on the order of half a percent of their annual sales.

The major impact I could see is a PR and advertising one impacting future EV sales (Lightning), but that already has very strong demand and low planned build rates, so I am not sure how big of an impact it would be.

Edit: Corrected numbers to 30% as noted above
 
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