My GT Performance Edition (GTPE) first track launch with videos, timeslip! 0-60 in 4.12s, 1/4 mile in 12.657 @ 100.02 mph

[Mach1E]

See, to me that means it's clearly by design, and you're obviously not going to have a lot of luck starting a warranty claim for something that's by design.

The available battery capacity was most definitely “by design” as well and they’re already changing it.

The point of my above suggestion isn’t to get a warranty claim (they would have to have an actual fix). It’s about the only way to force an official response from Ford.

Gotta start somewhere.

On the screen buzz, first response was “it’s working as designed,” but later someone got their whole screen replaced and it’s better.

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[buzznwood]

The available battery capacity was most definitely “by design” as well and they’re already changing it.

The point of my above suggestion isn’t to get a warranty claim (they would have to have an actual fix). It’s about the only way to force an official response from Ford.

Gotta start somewhere.

On the screen buzz, first response was “it’s working as designed,” but later someone got their whole screen replaced and it’s better.

If it wasn't by design it would have been given 560+hp not 480hp which is still up from the original target of 460hp no doubt to match the mach-1, and the screens still buzz they just buzz a lot less .

Within a week or two we will probably get the reviews with test numbers and I doubt they will be any different from what owners have gotten, the rear motor can clearly run at full power all the way up to the rev limit per other trims, if the GT is suppose to have a better cooling circuit the larger front motor should be able to do the same at least for a full 1/4 run so yes maybe in time they will make some tweaks and improve things.

However Ford still has the legacy manufacture mentality of fix it all in the next model iteration and for all we know a Shelby derivative may well be in the works, which will instead get all the performance love and show what the this dual large motor set up is truly capable of.

 

[0t60-3.5]

"Give Ford a chance. If this isn’t an anomaly, and, there’s no fix announced relatively quickly"

Are we still within the "relatively quickly" range or are we past that? Who's still hoping that Ford "fixes" this and what sort of fix are you hoping for?

I discovered this today in a reply to a comment from the GT PE review / drag runs:

-----------------------------------
Dean Armstrong
3 days ago
Low 12’s but the mph is so low. Is the computer pulling or does it 60ft that good? Not hating, it looks like my next daily driver and I’ll skip the drags with it. Good review!

REPLY:



REVan Evan
2 days ago
The way Ford explained it, it gives full power for about 5 seconds then it ramps back the battery power to limit heating. It's done for long-term battery life in order for Ford to guarantee 70-plus percent battery life for 8 years. My guess is that as the technology improves, so will power.
-----------------------------------

So...
5 SECONDS of power is what you get, that gets you over 60mph and after that, not so much.

 

[Mach1E]

I discovered this today in a reply to a comment from the GT PE review / drag runs:

-----------------------------------
Dean Armstrong
3 days ago
Low 12’s but the mph is so low. Is the computer pulling or does it 60ft that good? Not hating, it looks like my next daily driver and I’ll skip the drags with it. Good review!

REPLY:


REVan Evan
2 days ago
The way Ford explained it, it gives full power for about 5 seconds then it ramps back the battery power to limit heating. It's done for long-term battery life in order for Ford to guarantee 70-plus percent battery life for 8 years. My guess is that as the technology improves, so will power.
-----------------------------------

So...
5 SECONDS of power is what you get, that gets you over 60mph and after that, not so much.

At least this is something…. Where someone from Ford admitted 5 seconds is what we are getting (which definitely lines up with the videos).

That said……. We can’t quite “blame technology limitations,” when this is the first BEV ever to have this 5 second limitation.

Remember when Tesla and Apple both limited performance of their products on purpose under the guise of “it’s to protect your battery?”

They both lost those lawsuits if I remember correctly.

I never saw an asterisk or anything on the “480 hp” that said anything about a 5 second limitation.

 

[Frankie]

I discovered this today in a reply to a comment from the GT PE review / drag runs:

-----------------------------------
Dean Armstrong
3 days ago
Low 12’s but the mph is so low. Is the computer pulling or does it 60ft that good? Not hating, it looks like my next daily driver and I’ll skip the drags with it. Good review!

REPLY:


REVan Evan
2 days ago
The way Ford explained it, it gives full power for about 5 seconds then it ramps back the battery power to limit heating. It's done for long-term battery life in order for Ford to guarantee 70-plus percent battery life for 8 years. My guess is that as the technology improves, so will power.
-----------------------------------

So...
5 SECONDS of power is what you get, that gets you over 60mph and after that, not so much.

FYI it's generally frowned upon to post the same thing in multiple threads. If people are in this subforum they're going to see it, you don't need to post it multiple times.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

However Ford still has the legacy manufacture mentality of fix it all in the next model iteration and for all we know a Shelby derivative may well be in the works, which will instead get all the performance love and show what the this dual large motor set up is truly capable of.

1999 Mustang SVT Cobra owners say Hello!

Ford had to “fix” (new exhaust, intake, ecu flash) their Cobras to provide the missing 20ish HP and they ended up not making a Cobra in MY 2000 because of the problem. 2001 it was back. So, there is a precedent set for this type of issue getting fixed quickly. I’m sure you recall that debacle.

I was lucky, I had recently switched from 5.0 allegiance to the Evil Empire GM when they put the LS-1 in the F-Bodies in ‘98. The writing was on the wall with that beast of a small block, haha. We were lmfao at the Cobra guys struggling to get in the 13s while we were getting in the 12s with virtually no mods done. It was epic.

And then GM shit on us in ‘02 and cancelled the F body until the 5th Gen ‘10 Camaro.

 

[buzznwood]

1999 Mustang SVT Cobra owners say Hello!

Ford had to “fix” (new exhaust, intake, ecu flash) their Cobras to provide the missing 20ish HP and they ended up not making a Cobra in MY 2000 because of the problem. 2001 it was back. So, there is a precedent set for this type of issue. I’m sure you recall that debacle.

I was lucky, I had recently switched from 5.0 allegiance to the Evil Empire GM when they put the LS-1 in the F-Bodies in ‘98. The writing was on the walk with that beast of a small block, haha. We were lmfao at the Cobra guys struggling to get in the 13s while we were getting in the 12s with virtually no mods done. It was epic.

And then GM shit on us in ‘02 and cancelled the F body until the 5th Gen ‘10 Camaro.

Ford are not the first and won't be the last to bungle the power figures, however the issue here is that the shove you get low down matches what your expectations of 634lbs and 480hp should be so it no doubt has the claimed power figures so legally its all good, but the drop off is drastic and in keeping the with 2.0 Honda theming it needs its own inverse vtec kicked in yo meme as it is quite noticeable.

Can it be improved, no doubt but will Ford bother, with the lack of Ford response so far I would have to put that in the unlikely camp.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Ford are not the first and won't be the last to bungle the power figures, however the issue here is that the shove you get low down matches what your expectations of 634lbs and 480hp should be so it no doubt has the claimed power figures so legally its all good, but the drop off is drastic and in keeping the with 2.0 Honda theming it needs its own inverse vtec kicked in yo meme as it is quite noticeable.

Can it be improved, no doubt but will Ford bother, with the lack of Ford response so far I would have to put that in the unlikely camp.

I agree to a point. But any half-assed lawyer can say 346/428 hp/tq 4X = 101/103+mph 1/4, so, why do my client’s 480/600-635 hp/tq GT and GT Performance models only do 101-103+mph in the same 1/4 mile. They live their lives a 1/4 mile at a time and demand justice! ?

The performance of the 4X is what has put Ford in an actionable position regarding the GT rather than the GTs performance by itself.

 

[buzznwood]

I agree to a point. But any half-assed lawyer can say 346/428 hp/tq 4X = 101/103+mph 1/4, so, why do my client’s 480/600-635 hp/tq GT and GT Performance models only do 101-103+mph in the same 1/4 mile. They live their lives a 1/4 mile at a time and demand justice! ?

The performance of the 4X is what has put Ford in an actionable position regarding the GT rather than the GTs performance by itself.

At the moment the only real competition in the performance space is this class is the model Y, other manufactures have kept performance levels similar to existing ICE vehicles as an alternative and ones with similar times are not marketing using the performance carrot.

So for a while Ford can just sit and do nothing, however once the kia EV6 GT comes out it will probably end up a similar price the GTPE and while vehicle looks are always subjective it will no doubt entice a lot of people looking for the performance carrot so maybe by then we may see some traction from Ford towards unleashing the full potential of the GTPE drive train to at least appear competitive, the GTPE will never compete on the top speed front with 124mph but I don't think anybody would care if it was able to reach it in 12/13 seconds.

 

[Frankie]

I bet the 577 hp 162 mph top speed Kia EV6 GT isn't going to trap 101 mph.

 

[Progress]

A 5% fix. Darren Palmer recently gave specific details about loosening the limits on total battery usage(88 to 91 kwh) as well as how the limits on fast charging were going to be loosened (80% to 90% SOC and faster rate of initial charge if the battery was healthy) because their testing showed the battery can handle that. He also said that the software could allow more power from the motors. Fast charging and fast discharging are related, so I will give some positive speculation to all the negative vibes here that Ford will increase the amount of high level battery usage so that the times and speeds up to the quarter mile will improve by about 5%. Using the data from the thread that lists all the best times so far (https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...-performance-figures-data-tracking-list.9485/)
the 0-60 would go to 3.4 s, 1/8 would go to 7.4 s, 1/4 would go to 11.9 s and 1/4 mile trap would go to 109 mph. Obviously it is not as simple as this. Perhaps 0-60 mph stays the same but there is a 15% improvement above that. All I am pointing out is that the "disappointing times and speed" are only a few percentages off of very acceptable results. A different executive said they would be making improvements this year, next year and in 2023, so it would be optimistic to see this increase in 2021. Two reviews today have already come out quoting these forums saying the GTPE has great 0-60 mph splits but disappointing 1/4 mile time and trap speed. So that is getting more publicity from professional reviewers.
Is a 5% increase in performance enough to satisfy people on this forum, or do you need 7 or 8%?

 

[Frankie]

A 5% fix. Darren Palmer recently gave specific details about loosening the limits on total battery usage(88 to 91 kwh) as well as how the limits on fast charging were going to be loosened (80% to 90% SOC and faster rate of initial charge if the battery was healthy) because their testing showed the battery can handle that. He also said that the software could allow more power from the motors. Fast charging and fast discharging are related, so I will give some positive speculation to all the negative vibes here that Ford will increase the amount of high level battery usage so that the times and speeds up to the quarter mile will improve by about 5%. Using the data from the thread that lists all the best times so far (https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/?-mach-e-gt-crowdsourced-performance-figures-data-tracking-list.9485/)
the 0-60 would go to 3.4 s, 1/8 would go to 7.4 s, 1/4 would go to 11.9 s and 1/4 mile trap would go to 109 mph. Obviously it is not as simple as this. Perhaps 0-60 mph stays the same but there is a 15% improvement above that. All I am pointing out is that the "disappointing times and speed" are only a few percentages off of very acceptable results. A different executive said they would be making improvements this year, next year and in 2023, so it would be optimistic to see this increase in 2021. Two reviews today have already come out quoting these forums saying the GTPE has great 0-60 mph splits but disappointing 1/4 mile time and trap speed. So that is getting more publicity from professional reviewers.
Is a 5% increase in performance enough to satisfy people on this forum, or do you need 7 or 8%?

Have you ever raced at a drag strip?

Ever owned a performance car before?

No offense, but there's a big disconnect on this forum between Mustang Mach-E owners that were former Prius owners, and Mustang Mach-E owners that were (are) Mustang owners.

A 5% increase in horsepower doesn't result in a 5% decrease in ET. That's not how horsepower works, and it's not how physics works.

A 5% increase in horsepower in this scenario is more like 12.3@105, not 11.9@109.

11.9@109 I would absolutely be happy with. But I don't see that happening based off your math here.

The difference between a 102 trap and a 110 trap is not "a few percentages" it's like 150 horsepower. It's huge.

 

[Progress]

Have you ever raced at a drag strip?

Ever owned a performance car before?

No offense, but there's a big disconnect on this forum between Mustang Mach-E owners that were former Prius owners, and Mustang Mach-E owners that were (are) Mustang owners.

A 5% increase in horsepower doesn't result in a 5% decrease in ET. That's not how horsepower works, and it's not how physics works.

A 5% increase in horsepower in this scenario is more like 12.3@105, not 11.9@109.

11.9@109 I would absolutely be happy with. But I don't see that happening based off your math here.

The difference between a 102 trap and a 110 trap is not "a few percentages" it's like 150 horsepower. It's huge.

The post you site never mentioned horsepower, it mentioned speed and time. Everyone knows that the MME GTPE has plenty of horsepower to reach 11.9 s and 110 mph trap speed in 1/4 mile. However, it is being throttled back by software.
There are 3 straightforward ways to increase the trap speed and 1/4 mile in the MME GTPE. The software could allow full power on acceleration for longer than the 5 seconds that it currently does, but then cut it the same as now. It could allow high acceleration for just 5 seconds, but then cut it by significantly less than it currently does. Alternatively, when the pedal is floored, the software could access some of the horsepower that is in the motors but not currently being used and increase the rate of acceleration across the board.
All of these require more use of the battery to access the power that is already in the motors. If Ford determines that changing the parameters to get better 1/4 mile times does not damage the battery, and they decide that doing so will help market the vehicle, than those changes will probably appear by the first quarter of 2022. If Ford does not want to do that, or the batteries can't do that, then those changes will never be made. I personally do not think it is a "huge" deal.

 

[Frankie]

The post you site never mentioned horsepower, it mentioned speed and time. Everyone knows that the MME GTPE has plenty of horsepower to reach 11.9 s and 110 mph trap speed in 1/4 mile. However, it is being throttled back by software.
There are 3 straightforward ways to increase the trap speed and 1/4 mile in the MME GTPE. The software could allow full power on acceleration for longer than the 5 seconds that it currently does, but then cut it the same as now. It could allow high acceleration for just 5 seconds, but then cut it by significantly less than it currently does. Alternatively, when the pedal is floored, the software could access some of the horsepower that is in the motors but not currently being used and increase the rate of acceleration across the board.
All of these require more use of the battery to access the power that is already in the motors. If Ford determines that changing the parameters to get better 1/4 mile times does not damage the battery, and they decide that doing so will help market the vehicle, than those changes will probably appear by the first quarter of 2022. If Ford does not want to do that, or the batteries can't do that, then those changes will never be made. I personally do not think it is a "huge" deal.

i notice you didn’t answer my questions and are also just ignoring the fact that the difference in the amount of horsepower it takes to go from a 102 trap to a 110 trap is not a simple trivial matter of “a few percentages.”

 

[sotek2345]

TFL has their hands on a GTPE for some independent testing. Looks like we should expect some more detailed videos soon.

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